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Another poor sap with Bus fever
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Question Maybe I missed it in the thread, but is your bus a California import, or is it a Federal?

aerosurfer wrote:
And an even better place to start is the fuel injection manual...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/afc_fi_training_troubleshooting_manual.php

Excellent link! Also the Robert Bosch Fuel Injection manual covers this system and others in great detail. You can get that book on Amazon.

Arrow Here is a link to the Ratwell website: http://www.ratwell.com/


This is a bone stock 1977 California qualified 2.0 Type 4 engine:

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Don't forget the heat deflector (long dark grey rectangular thing)

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You will need all this stuff...and more! Used is fine provided the CAT is still good and all your parts meet spec.

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I got these fuel injectors from Bus Depot, but sent them to Witchhunter anyway and was glad I did. The little one upper left is called the Cold Start Valve, AKA the Fifth Injector. The tested flow rates varied and they came back in better shape than they came new out of the box!

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This is the mechanical EGR valve from my 1977 bus:

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This is the 'bird's beak' Unleaded Fuel Restrictor that is supposed to be in the gas tank filler neck. The one on the far left is NOS and NLA, the broken one in the middle is likely what you will find on your bus, and the one on the right currently available most places would fail you on a visual inspection.

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Here is the Emissions Decal that is supposed to be on inside of the rear deck lid:

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Here is my first attempt at a Smog Check. I PASSED because I spent a lot of time, money and reading up to get to that point.

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aerosurfer
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:


EDIT: It looks like I see the 72-74 heat exchanger setup going into the muffler in one of the pictures. I do not know if this will be cause for a visual failure point on the smog test, but it's something we'll have to consider, later down the line.


Robbie


Damn, I thought you left coasters could still retrofit the early style exhaust as long as it met emissions and castalyst, if neseccary. Can you do the early style plus crossover and j pipe? Or is it all off the table for 75-78?
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KentPS Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

I'm still waiting for the delivery of the bus. The transport truck is broken down in Phoenix and getting its transmission rebuilt and a new clutch. So the earliest I may see it is tomorrow afternoon.

Once I get pics of all the placards and engine info, I'll pass it on.

While waiting, it's given me a chance to read Beltley, which wasn't as helpful as the AFC training and troubleshooting manual. That gave a great overview of components, their purpose and what to look for when problems pop up.

In today's mail, I got Tom Wilson's "How to Revuild your VW Air-Cooled Engine" book. THAT is going to teach me a lot, even though it doesn't get into FI. Just reading the intro was a learning experience.

So I now have read or reviewed the Bentley and Muir gotta-have books, the Haynes, VW Bay Restoration Manual, and am starting the How to Rebuild book. Are there other good places (other than thesamba tech, which I've been also reading through and getting familiar with)? I'm hoping to be semi-proficient at VW diagnosis and repairs someday.

Thanks again guys
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-Kent-

1976 Riviera, my 1.7l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
--> Whatever you do, have fun doing it! Smile

WildIdea wrote:
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. Its.... like driving a celebration!"
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Popcorn
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KentPS Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Grrrrrr.... Still no word on when the bus will be delivered.
In hindsight, I shoulda pulled it here from Missouri. It would have been faster. Evil or Very Mad

Tcash wrote:
If you get lucky it may be titled off the door sticker as a 75.
Good luck
Tcash


Here's my stupid question of the day... (Lots more of those coming! Smile )
If the bus has a 1975 manufacturing date, will that exempt me from having to pass smog in CA?

EDIT: I think I answered my question via the CA DMV website. It says all "model years 1975 and earlier" (not manufacturing year) require the inspection. So I guess FI is in my future.
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-Kent-

1976 Riviera, my 1.7l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
--> Whatever you do, have fun doing it! Smile

WildIdea wrote:
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. Its.... like driving a celebration!"


Last edited by KentPS on Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aerosurfer
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Depends on the VIN. Build date doesn't really matter, it's about what model year it was produced under.
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OB Bus
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

KentPS wrote:


Here's my stupid question of the day... (Lots more of those coming! Smile )
If the bus has a 1975 manufacturing date, will that exempt me from having to pass smog in CA?

EDIT: I think I answered my question via the CA DMV website. It says all "model years 1975 and earlier" (not manufacturing year) require the inspection. So I guess FI is in my future.


Whoa there....that should be 75 (or is it 76?) and later require inspection.
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asiab3
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

It all depends on what the title says. If the car was built in August of 1975, VW would have said it is a 1976 model year car. The original title should have reflected that. But paperwork and humans are not immune to error, so sometimes cars get shift a year or two, usually to the "August New Model Year!" crap we created in the '60s to sell more cars. I had a 1971 bus that was titled 1970 once. If your title says '75, you're exempt from testing. If your title says '76, you're going to need to get a pry-bar for your wallet.

Robbie
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1. Do the easiest thing first.
2. Don't rely on the guy before you. He was not able to fix the problem.
3. 90% of problems are between the driver's seat and the steering wheel.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

OB Bus wrote:
KentPS wrote:


Here's my stupid question of the day... (Lots more of those coming! Smile )
If the bus has a 1975 manufacturing date, will that exempt me from having to pass smog in CA?

EDIT: I think I answered my question via the CA DMV website. It says all "model years 1975 and earlier" (not manufacturing year) require the inspection. So I guess FI is in my future.


Whoa there....that should be 75 (or is it 76?) and later require inspection.


Whoops! It is 76 and later.
Not only is drinking and driving not a good idea, but drinking and posting isn't so good either. Come to think of it, beer and EBay isn't a good combo either. It's how I bought this bus... Razz
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-Kent-

1976 Riviera, my 1.7l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
--> Whatever you do, have fun doing it! Smile

WildIdea wrote:
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. Its.... like driving a celebration!"
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
It all depends on what the title says. If the car was built in August of 1975, VW would have said it is a 1976 model year car. The original title should have reflected that. But paperwork and humans are not immune to error, so sometimes cars get shift a year or two, usually to the "August New Model Year!" crap we created in the '60s to sell more cars. I had a 1971 bus that was titled 1970 once. If your title says '75, you're exempt from testing. If your title says '76, you're going to need to get a pry-bar for your wallet.

Robbie


LOL!
I've got the 3-foot pry-bar all ready and waiting for the arrival. I'm sure that wallet will get moth-eaten before it sees another buck in it.
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-Kent-

1976 Riviera, my 1.7l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
--> Whatever you do, have fun doing it! Smile

WildIdea wrote:
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. Its.... like driving a celebration!"
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Pinetops
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:42 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

I'm glad you started a thread for your bus. I'll be staying tuned. Congratulations!
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TDCTDI
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Title shoulda read "Another sap about to be a lot poorer because of a bus." Hopefully the delay in shipping is because it fell off the truck & they're waiting for the insurance adjuster to contact you. Good luck.
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rockerarm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Hi. I think it would be ideal if a member, here, was a current licensed smog technician in Calif. I recall my dealer days when I was a smog tech. The dealer was fortunate to have one of the mechanic's get a state job with the Bureau of Auto Repair, which runs the programs. We would invite him to an occasional monthly shop meeting and get current info and trends. This was invaluable.
So, with that said this is what I've got off the states web.

http://smogcheck.ca.gov/FormsPubs/Fact_Sheets_and_Brochures/Program_Areas.html

http://smogcheck.ca.gov/pdf/Program_Map.pdf

http://smogcheck.ca.gov/pdf/Smog_Check_Requirements_by_Vehicle_Type.pdf


When a car is sold, who is responsible for the inspection?
The seller is required to provide the buyer with a valid smog inspection certification at the time of the sale or transfer. Smog certifications are good for 90 days from the date of issuance

This is a quote from the state's web site. How valid it is when a vehicle is purchased from out of state, I do not know. I would guess that the seller has somewhat of a responsibility for the sale to be legal. Was the sale of this '76 bus into Calif, thru Ebay, legal?
Hope this helps, Bill.
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sestino
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Kent, congrats on the bus, it looks decent.

Regarding your need to switch back to FI and a '76 exhaust, the good news is that you should be able fund part of that by selling the earlier exhaust and the carbs. A lot of guys are looking for the earlier exhaust pieces because they are simpler and flow better.

You may want to set up a search on Ebay, like "VW Bus Fuel Injection." I regularly see complete or partial sets for sale for $200 or less. There is one on there now that does not look particularly good, but a good one sold last month. Even if you can get an FI set from a list member, having spares is always good.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Dont forget you will need all different tin for the conversion too. Heat risers, Forward, pushrod, right side warm air duct, Alternator bracket.

Before you spend any money, Get the bus in hand. See what you are really working with, and that it is indeed a keeper for you.

Reading up on everything is great, but you will learn so much more when you are able to to have the motor and vehicle in front of you to tinker with.
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77 Westy 2.0L Rockin and Rolling Resto!

72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

aerosurfer wrote:
Before you spend any money, Get the bus in hand and get its title in your name.
FTFY
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

After many many delays, the bus FINALLY made it to me this evening! And all I can say is... WOW!!! From the pics on eBay, it looked like there was door rust at the bottom of all three doors. But there's no rust on two doors, and a small area at the front bottom corner of the slider. And under the windshield... and the drivers floor pan. No rust I could see underneath, so overall, it is amazingly solid (to my untrained eye).

In an earlier post, I said it made it onto the transport truck under its own power. But the driver said it had to be winched on. And I couldn't get the key to turn in the ignition (and tried turning the wheel, with no luck), so I gave up instead of risking breaking the key off.

I've entered the m-code into the magic decoder, and here's what it said...

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[/b]

So far, I haven't done anything with the bus, other than to look it over, pull it into the garage (I mean PUSH it) and disconnect the battery.

But it's gonna be a fun weekend getting to know her! And drain the fuel tank. She reeks of it! I left the garage door open just in case.
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-Kent-

1976 Riviera, my 1.7l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
--> Whatever you do, have fun doing it! Smile

WildIdea wrote:
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. Its.... like driving a celebration!"
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:02 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Well, it must be nice to have it home, right! Laughing

There is another person who suffered from ignition switch problems. Not exactly like yours, but there is some good information that you might need to consider, nonetheless:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8215835&highlight=#8215835

jtauxe wrote:
aerosurfer wrote:
Before you spend any money, Get the bus in hand and get its title in your name.
FTFY


California DMV will not let me complete Title to me for either my 1981 Vanagon or the 1978 bus I just bought until I get the smog checks done. I paid the fees to keep 'fee delinquency' from happening, but Title transfer and issuance is pending the smog check.

Also, my 1978 bus is currently registered until July 2017, and I was issued what looks like current Registration... but it clearly says "Incomplete application- this is not an operating permit" with a nice red rubber stamp on top that says "Please return all attached paperwork" which is the released Title from the Seller and the Bill of Sale.

Essentially, DMV is happy that I bought a car, but couldn't care less about letting me use it during the current registration period until I pass smog (and insure it).

Not saying you will suffer from this, but please be ready to dance.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Wasted youth wrote:
Well, it must be nice to have it home, right! Laughing

California DMV will not let me complete Title to me for either my 1981 Vanagon or the 1978 bus I just bought until I get the smog checks done. I paid the fees to keep 'fee delinquency' from happening, but Title transfer and issuance is pending the smog check.

Also, my 1978 bus is currently registered until July 2017, and I was issued what looks like current Registration... but it clearly says "Incomplete application- this is not an operating permit" with a nice red rubber stamp on top that says "Please return all attached paperwork" which is the released Title from the Seller and the Bill of Sale.

Essentially, DMV is happy that I bought a car, but couldn't care less about letting me use it during the current registration period until I pass smog (and insure it).

Not saying you will suffer from this, but please be ready to dance.


Thanks for the ignition thread. I'll check it out right away. I'm still stoked about finally having it here, so I woke up early and have been crawling all over and around it to get familiar with the rig.

Yes, I'm prepared for a long haul to get it registered. It's just gonna take lots of time and money and sweat and swearing and more money, right? I'm in no hurry to get it on the road. I'd rather get it done right than get it done quickly.

Here's an idea... I'm unfamiliar with the status of this engine, other than the carbs were recently professionally rebuilt and that it "run when it wants" according to the seller. I'm assuming it would be easiest to (hopefully) find a different engine with FI and all the tin at a junk yard, and start from there. I would be equally unfamiliar with its status, but at least it would have all the right parts (again hopefully).

Or am I being too hopeful?
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-Kent-

1976 Riviera, my 1.7l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
--> Whatever you do, have fun doing it! Smile

WildIdea wrote:
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. Its.... like driving a celebration!"
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aerosurfer
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Finding another engine with the parts you need to scavenge would be good, or look for someone selling an entire lot of fuel injection parts. There may be some leftover FI parts still on the bus too.

But start with a compression test, fuel filter change, checking all electrical connections, ignition test, all of which you will have to do anyways. Your current engine might be just fine. You will need the stock parts to get it on the road, but don't think that means you have to start from scratch. I'd bet 'runs when it wants to' is likely a simple fix, tune up type item.

The fuel pump between carb and FI will be different however
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Rebuild your own FI Harness..My Harness

77 Westy 2.0L Rockin and Rolling Resto!

72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone)
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