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Another poor sap with Bus fever
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KentPS Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

sestino wrote:
Kent, congrats on the bus, it looks decent.

Regarding your need to switch back to FI and a '76 exhaust, the good news is that you should be able fund part of that by selling the earlier exhaust and the carbs. A lot of guys are looking for the earlier exhaust pieces because they are simpler and flow better.

You may want to set up a search on Ebay, like "VW Bus Fuel Injection." I regularly see complete or partial sets for sale for $200 or less. There is one on there now that does not look particularly good, but a good one sold last month. Even if you can get an FI set from a list member, having spares is always good.


Thanks sestino. Excellent idea. I didn't know the earlier exhaust was of value to someone. But then, it sounds like everything on a bus is valuable to someone out there.

The seller also included two jalousie windows with screen frames and seals in case I wanted to swap them out. They are what I had in my last bus 30 years ago. But I kinda like the look and function of the sliding windows. The jalousies may be posted soon.
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-Kent-

1976 Riviera, my 1.7l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
--> Whatever you do, have fun doing it! Smile

WildIdea wrote:
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. Its.... like driving a celebration!"
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rockerarm
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Hi. That is good thinking about the engine's status. Look at the engine's code letters and see if it is the engine that should be in the bus. Once you determine the year/application (meaning was it originally equipped with FI or a poss '72 thru '74 carb'd engine). That will prevent you from obtaining parts for an earlier engine and poss create more concerns. Recognize that there are items you will need to have that are not attached to the engine. Electric fuel pump and fuel lines, computer, double relay, series resistor, and filler neck restrictor all come to mind. I don't recall from my smog tech days if the orange colored emissions decal was an issue as this informed the technician whether the bus was a Calif or Federal. I'm not sure if '76 was a concern here.
Might consider looking for a dedicated air-cooled VW shop, or even a Porsche shop that knows a smog shop that is courteous to the air-cooled community.
If it looks like you are going to need large items, such as a complete engine/fuel system, there is a close place to us here in SoCal. It is call Interstate and are located in Lake Elsinore's area. Believe the owners names are Jim and Linda.
Hope this helps. Bill.
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KentPS Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

rockerarm wrote:
Hi. That is good thinking about the engine's status. Look at the engine's code letters and see if it is the engine that should be in the bus. Once you determine the year/application (meaning was it originally equipped with FI or a poss '72 thru '74 carb'd engine). That will prevent you from obtaining parts for an earlier engine and poss create more concerns.


Oh yeah.... Thanks for the reminder. I forgot to check the engine code. I'll do that today for sure.


rockerarm wrote:
Recognize that there are items you will need to have that are not attached to the engine. Electric fuel pump and fuel lines, computer, double relay, series resistor, and filler neck restrictor all come to mind. I don't recall from my smog tech days if the orange colored emissions decal was an issue as this informed the technician whether the bus was a Calif or Federal. I'm not sure if '76 was a concern here.
Might consider looking for a dedicated air-cooled VW shop, or even a Porsche shop that knows a smog shop that is courteous to the air-cooled community.
If it looks like you are going to need large items, such as a complete engine/fuel system, there is a close place to us here in SoCal. It is call Interstate and are located in Lake Elsinore's area. Believe the owners names are Jim and Linda.
Hope this helps. Bill.


Big thanks for the heads up about Interstate. Lake Elsinore isn't that far. Gonna have to go visit them sometime soon.
And I stumbled (via Yelp) upon a great VW mechanic in Indio (35 miles away) who specializes in type 2's. I was salivating after walking thru his parking lot, looking at all the buses ready for his expertise. That is what started the Bus Fever for me.
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-Kent-

1976 Riviera, my 1.7l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
--> Whatever you do, have fun doing it! Smile

WildIdea wrote:
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. Its.... like driving a celebration!"
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

I totally agree with rockerarm and aerosurfer. Excellent advice. And, I am pretty sure you should have a GD series engine with solid lifters (aluminum push rods) but someone may have put a later GE engine with hydraulic lifters and steel pushrods. Either one should have the same emissions standards.

I would highly recommend the emissions decal. Don't let something stupid ruin your day at the smog shop.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

KentPS wrote:

And I stumbled (via Yelp) upon a great VW mechanic in Indio (35 miles away) who specializes in type 2's. I was salivating after walking thru his parking lot, looking at all the buses ready for his expertise. That is what started the Bus Fever for me.

Before you give any shop money maybe check feedback here or post the name of the shop/mech and see if anyone else has dealt with them? I realize that between Palm Springs and Indio you do not have a lot of shops to choose from but just in case....
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

VIN, Chassis, Engine number locations
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Hi. I may have been possibly misguided on the emissions label. This link, on page 16, section 1.3.2, Emission Control Systems Label should clarify.

https://www.bar.ca.gov/pdf/DRAFT%20Smog%20Check%20Manual%20web.pdf
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Exclamation What year does the out of state title say? Question

I think rockerarm was spot on when he said it would be helpful here if another member was a licensed smog tech here in CA. I'll be looking for a job in a few months; I'd be happy to sign up if you folks paid me a commission for answering all your questions! Laughing Cool

My experience with a few bus emissions tests has been fairly consistent, yet screwy. Now, the state law dictates that ANY function of a car that affects emissions must not be modified. (Prius owners get special regulations regarding their low rolling resistance tires. No cheap retreads here!) So it is safe to assume that an entire exhaust system refit SHOULD be considered illegal, since it changes the flow characteristics of the engine. My experience though, is that the referees do not know, or have a source for, what the plumbing should look like except for the presence of a CAT and EGR system. The emissions labels do not talk about the U-pipes or the elbows or the collector mufflers. As far as I saw in my tests, there is no book showing diagrams of pipes. So if your bus is a federal bus, anything will likely pass as long as the ref is not a VW bus enthusiast. (Remember, that this is illegal but nobody has a way of catching it, really. So you'll probably pass.)

I also had a completely stock federal setup on my federal bus, EXCEPT I had a hollowed-out CAT in line, because I could not find the delete pipe for it. I had pictures of the inside of the cat, AND it was a legal EMCO CAT from years ago, but it was hollow. Didn't matter, because the textbook for the ref says "NO!" So I failed for that, and then took the bus back with an EMPI 4-tip sport exhaust system, and the bus completely passed the visual and functional.

My experience bottom line? It depends on what the ref knows. Don't start worrying about the exhaust until after you've A) figured out what year the title says, B) acquired necessary fuel injection parts, and C) taken it to a pre-test with all the functional parts hooked up.

Good luck,
Robbie
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Hi Robbie- I don't have the title in hand yet. I asked the seller to mail it separately, rather than putting it in the bus during transport. I should get it early this week.

Here is the engine code...

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...so I'm assuming the engine and exhaust was pulled from an earlier bus.

Also, here is the emissions label...


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Overall, it's not good news. But I just need to find someone with a Calif bus who moved out of state who wants to swap. That's all. Rolling Eyes
[/quote]
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-Kent-

1976 Riviera, my 1.7l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
--> Whatever you do, have fun doing it! Smile

WildIdea wrote:
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. Its.... like driving a celebration!"
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

A bunch of pics taken of the engine...


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-Kent-

1976 Riviera, my 1.7l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
--> Whatever you do, have fun doing it! Smile

WildIdea wrote:
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. Its.... like driving a celebration!"
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Note: in the link I provide there are two locations for the engine numbers.
How about listing the numbers from both locations.

Post some pix of the M-Plate, Engine, Exhaust and the Bus.

Good luck
Tcash
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Hi. Yeah, what Tcash stated. On your pics, the first one appeared to show the opening, forward of the battery void of the ECU (computer). Another foto shows the pulley end with a small pulley for the air pump consistent with carb'd '73 and '74 models. Another engine pic shows a distrib with a dual vacuum unit. These distrib's had a base timing of 5 degrees ATDC. Your emissions decal indicates a base timing of 7.5 degrees BTDC, which was used on distrib's with only one vac canister. With that said this engine could be from an earlier bus.
Bill.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

At first glance...

Looks to me like you have an early CB series Type 4 1700cc bus engine from model years 1972-1974 with a smog pump bracket and maybe stock dual carburetors. This is not the correct engine for 1976 model year.

Your emissions decal seems to indicate a Federal emissions package.

Since I am pretty good at making people uncomfortable at parties, I'll go ahead and say I think you are pretty much going to wish you had the right engine. Really have doubts you will be able to get this thing registered unless you can somehow wiggle some Federal exemption. I have no experience with that.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

I've been having some fun finding all the numbers you mentioned, Tcash. The second engine # was only visible after I took a picture of it. I couldn't see it with my nekkid eyes. But here you go...


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The first engine ID I posted earlier had the first letter very faint, almost illegible, so I thought it said "B0" instead of "CB". So the CB indicates it's a 1972/1973 1700 with dual carbs. That makes sense, assuming the engine and exhaust was salvaged and installed together(?).

And here are a couple pics of the exhaust system. I haven't jacked up the back yet, so I hope they are visible from this angle...

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And while I was crawling around, I came across some dangling or detached wires. This gizmo has a green wire coming out of it, and there is a green wire connector laying close by. Logic says to connect them, but thought I'd ask first since I don't know what that gizmo is...

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And these wire were just hanging out when I was down looking at the exhaust...

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I need to loose another 20 lb before I can crawl under there to see where they're from.

It makes me wonder what other wires I've missed seeing.

My feeling is you hit the nail on the head, Wasted Youth. This is a Frankenbus, in need of some major surgery to put it back the way it was. If so, I'm up for it.
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1976 Riviera, my 1.7l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
--> Whatever you do, have fun doing it! Smile

WildIdea wrote:
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. Its.... like driving a celebration!"
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Hi. Nice work Kent. 20lbs? The samba is better than weight watchers and cheaper! We'll keep you busy.
On a serious note, I believe you have to notify/register with DMV within a certain time. Thinking about your current scenario brought me to initiate this thread about a car purchased/registered but not ready to be put on the road with insurance.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8220297#8220297
Thinking about your upcoming work on an unknown project, would you consider having this bay bus registered in a different state such as Oregon? Guessing you'd have to have a relative up there. Many people do it. Look at all the RV;s in Calif with Oregon plates. I highly doubt there are that many RV's up there. And this could be temporary, I guess.
I think we are coming to the conclusion you are going to need the complete engine, with its specific systems(fuel, ignition, exhaust, emissions).
I think it might be good to get that carb'd engine running, if not complex, for the main purpose of evaluating the remainder of the bus' systems, such as trans, brakes, electrical, etc.
Hope this helps, Bill.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Right click on pic and open in a new window.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

You've got a couple good ideas there, Bill. I have a brother in S. Washington state who would do it for me. But I checked the Dept of Licensing (WA's equivalent to CA's DMV), and they require a vehicle check. So I'd need to haul it up there. I think I'd rather go the legal route, bite the bullet, and get the right equipment on there so I can register it in CA.
I believe it has to be registered within 30 days, and it took 3 weeks getting the bus here. So hopefully the title gets here soon, so I can register it inop.

And I was toying with the idea of whether to do the compression check and all and get it running. Your point of being able to evaluate the other systems is a good one. I'll work on that tomorrow.

I got the ignition key to turn, and tried starting it. It turned over and built oil pressure (oil light went out anyway) but it didn't start. The accel pedal was flat against the floorboard, so I guess it's time to lose those 20 lb and crawl under to see what's going on. (I'm 6' and 170, so losing 20 would just about put me in a coffin. So instead, I've jacked it up and put the back up on stands.)

One thing that stumps me (well, one of MANY things) is the parking brake. I can pull the handle out, but it doesn't 'click' and stay in place. I'll play with that tomorrow too.

On a side note, a good buddy of mine stopped over to see the bus. He was less than impressed with it. But then I realized that in the 15 years I've known him, he's never had a car long enough to get dirty, much less get a little rust. He trades them in faster than Liz Taylor traded husbands! Some people just don't appreciate a diamond in the rough when they see one. And some people don't understand the affects of Bus Fever. Luckily, all of us here do. Cool

BTW... Thanks for deciphering the M-codes, Tcash. But I posted them here yesterday. It's good to see I got the numbers right.
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1976 Riviera, my 1.7l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
--> Whatever you do, have fun doing it! Smile

WildIdea wrote:
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. Its.... like driving a celebration!"
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Welcome to the "wild, wild world of bus ownership"! I like reading about your enthusiasm about making this bus correct!

I'm another vote to start searching craigslist, this site, VW wrecking yards, etc, for a year correct engine with all the FI already in place. You'd save lots of $ finding something complete vs. buying the parts individually. Yes, you may have to have the core rebuilt but, once you install it back in the bus and put everything back in the engine compartment that it had when delivered new, you'll be golden.

Another suggestion is looking for a beater bus, rust bucket that is original and complete in the engine compartment. You can strip what you need to make yours correct.

The good news is once you put that bus back to bone stock in the engine compartment, it will increase it's value significantly. The VW buses that sell for the most money are VERY original, stock and complete.

Look forward to seeing your updates.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

I hate TDS wifi--- Embarassed
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Another poor sap with Bus fever Reply with quote

Embarassed
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some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.

opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.

Don't step in any!


Last edited by williamM on Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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