| Author |
Message |
bobbyblack 
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4348
Location: United States, Iowa
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
 |
|
| Merian wrote: |
| self-driving cars can't come too soon |
Merian, I do so very much like the idea of self-driving cars. There is only one concern I have. If/When these cars are actually allowed on the road, they will be abused by those humans who are driving still.
I have to voice, perhaps as the first of the Voicers, that self-driving cars and normally driven cars will not be able to be on the same roads. Its just not an option.
Have you seen the initial Google self driving cars videos of them trying to get through an intersection? Wow. Humans will do the nastiest stuff, and it will only get worse as the human driven cars begin to discover the exploitable portion of how self-driven cars will behave.
Just no way to do it, practically. Now I have to conclude that there will be a time when the overlords will say "It's Time" and those people who want to drive their own cars will not be allowed to drive on the big roads. .
The statistics are terrible, yes, at 38,000 deaths in car crashes each year in the states. However, how many deaths are there from things like smoking, that are known to kill 2 out of 3, and yet still the people smoke?
I hope for a better future, but smoking is still happening, with no end in sight. I will always have a vehicle that does not have ANY computer. Know what happens to all the self-driving cars when a Nuke goes off? Hey, no workie! Get the old beetle out, drive to town. Be in the group of folks who have some sense to take technology with a grain of salt. I certainly do not wish for any such thing to happen, and perhaps all the factions out there that are gaining nuke power at an alarming rate will just "go away" but, you got a recipe for a true nose dive into the dark ages if everything is electronically controlled. (including almost every Vanagon)
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
I disagree and so does NHTSA.
We will all be dead before human operated vehicles are banned. But the sun will flare up and then go out anyway so....
BTW, I was run off the road in my sports car yesterday on a narrow road by a large semi-truck (which are not allowed on that Hwy at all). A self-driving truck would not have made that mistake.
_________________
.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bobbyblack
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4348
Location: United States, Iowa
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
| Merian wrote: |
I disagree and so does NHTSA.
We will all be dead before human operated vehicles are banned. But the sun will flare up and then go out anyway so....
BTW, I was run off the road in my sports car yesterday on a narrow road by a large semi-truck (which are not allowed on that Hwy at all). A self-driving truck would not have made that mistake. |
Im sorry to hear of your being run off the road, especially by a truck on a road it was not supposed to be on.
I am in complete agreement that you are right about the NHTSA. I am not sure of what to say about how it will all work out in the end.
Question: Do you suppose I am right on my thought that when the self-driven cars are on the road, there will be scads of humans who actively exploit the rules and boundaries that are programmed into the computer driven cars and trucks?
I DO like the idea of computer driven semi-trucks. Very very much. I like the idea of putting the railroad system back in better tho. I think it very backward to use the roadways for things much better handled by rail. Also, the NHTSA will NOT do any studies of how semi-trucks destroy the roads. They are 'hands-tied' to the industry. No such thing as asking for movement towards roads designed to last, such as those in some of our counterpart countries in the EU. We spend billions putting in new roadways that should have lasted 2 or 3 times longer, if they had been engineered properly to handle the huge rigs out there now.
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
Thx, my Moron Detector failed to signal their approach. The Or. State police officer was very helpful... I was beat around some but not seriously injured and the sports car was driveable afterwards, and the only damage may be to the underside (good thing the engine is in the rear)...
If I'd been in the Vanagon it would have never made it - I put the RH side wheels into the forest floor (no real shoulder) and the narrowness of the car allowed me to get past their truck
The real question is not whether people will take advantage of self-driving cars (after the novelty wears off), but:
1. whether they will take more advantage of self-driving cars than they do now of human driven cars.
2. If so, is that worth the decrease in injuries caused by drunks, cell phone users, and others...
I'm pretty sure of the answer 
_________________
....
Last edited by Merian on Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:05 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
A few questions about self driving cars:
Do you program it to your destination? If you fall asleep, does it drive you home or just go down the highway until the vehicle is out of gas?
I've flown B737's and you can program it, push a button and it will takeoff, fly to the destination, auto land and auto brake.
There's another button that you can push and the cockpit door opens, a beautiful young girl walks in and says, "What can I do for you Captain?"
Unfortunately that button wasn't included in the retirement program. However, one of the girls got a spare button from Maintenance, gave it to me and said, "You can push my button anytime Tommy."
Aloha
tp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
A few questions about self driving cars:
Do you program it to your destination? If you fall asleep, does it drive you home or just go down the highway until the vehicle is out of gas?
I've flown B737's and you can program it, push a button and it will takeoff, fly to the destination, auto land and auto brake.
There's another button that you can push and the cockpit door opens, a beautiful young girl walks in and says, "What can I do for you Captain?"
Unfortunately that button wasn't included in the retirement program. However, one of the girls got a spare button from Maintenance, gave it to me and said, "You can push my button anytime Tommy."
Aloha
tp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
Did you try to push it and the find out it was really a lever?
_________________
.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4087
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
While on the surface self driving cars seem like a good idea due to the increase in bad drivers/more distractions, I really don't like the idea.
If you make it even easier for people to use cars rather than taking the bus or train to work we will never win the fight over congestion.
Where I live now it doesn't matter, but when I lived in and around Seattle the freeways are filled with single driver cars. If you make it easier for these folks to work and sleep in their cars they will never make that step to mass transportation. I know that mass transit doesn't work for everyone, but for those who live and work on major transportation corridors it does and would drastically reduce taxpayers load for ever increasing size freeways. The idea is to get MORE people out of their cars! The biggest attraction of trains and buses (besides less wear and tear on your car) is being able to work, read, or sleep while traveling to work.
The real answer to todays poor drivers is better driver's ed and the elimination of "infotainment" in cars. Internet access and texting should be shielded from drivers of moving vehicles.
I think the car companies should be sued for the deaths and injuries inflicted by drivers distracted by the ever increasing amount of "infotainment" being built into new cars.
p.s. I agree with Sodo, self driving semi-trucks are already here, they're call trains! Interstate trucking should be banned. (another huge tax payer break!)
p.p.s. Nice driving campism! Glad you were able to avoid the crash.
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
campism
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 4491
Location: Richmond VA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
| MsTaboo wrote: |
| p.p.s. Nice driving campism! Glad you were able to avoid the crash. |
Thanks, it could have been awful. Regarding the distracted driving discussions and with respect to this particular instance we found takeout food containers, spilled coffee and what looked like a really good roast beef sub with bites taken out of it, so we suspect the woman was not fully concentrating on the task of driving. No telling what specifically triggered the launch and we may never know.
You people be careful out there.
_________________
'87 Westy in Wolfram Grey Metallic |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22641
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
| Tom Powell wrote: |
| 0cean wrote: |
| Tom Powell wrote: |
I was riding my bicycle once and a piece of toast fell out of the sky.
Aloha
tp |
But the real question is: Did you eat it?
Glade everyone was ok. |
No. It landed with the butter side down. 50/50
Aloha
tp |
Causing a traffic jam, he added wryly.
_________________
.ssS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22641
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
| MsTaboo wrote: |
While on the surface self driving cars seem like a good idea due to the increase in bad drivers/more distractions, I really don't like the idea.
If you make it even easier for people to use cars rather than taking the bus or train to work we will never win the fight over congestion.
Where I live now it doesn't matter, but when I lived in and around Seattle the freeways are filled with single driver cars. If you make it easier for these folks to work and sleep in their cars they will never make that step to mass transportation. I know that mass transit doesn't work for everyone, but for those who live and work on major transportation corridors it does and would drastically reduce taxpayers load for ever increasing size freeways. The idea is to get MORE people out of their cars! The biggest attraction of trains and buses (besides less wear and tear on your car) is being able to work, read, or sleep while traveling to work.
The real answer to todays poor drivers is better driver's ed and the elimination of "infotainment" in cars. Internet access and texting should be shielded from drivers of moving vehicles.
I think the car companies should be sued for the deaths and injuries inflicted by drivers distracted by the ever increasing amount of "infotainment" being built into new cars.
p.s. I agree with Sodo, self driving semi-trucks are already here, they're call trains! Interstate trucking should be banned. (another huge tax payer break!)
p.p.s. Nice driving campism! Glad you were able to avoid the crash. |
Self driving cars will actually end mass moving as we know it, and that will be a good thing. Congestion will end because the network can drive to Optimiser flow instead of the selfish sqvozing that happens now. The accordion effect in heavy highway flow will finally be gone
_________________
.ssS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7466
Location: WA/ID
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
| MsTaboo wrote: |
While on the surface self driving cars seem like a good idea due to the increase in bad drivers/more distractions, I really don't like the idea.
If you make it even easier for people to use cars rather than taking the bus or train to work we will never win the fight over congestion.
|
Perhaps mass transportation is a 20th century problem that will be made obsolete by highly efficient personal or small group cars traveling in unison to efficiently reduce congestion. I'm guessing that the not too distant future looks back at congested busses and subway cars as an example of humans doing the best they could until they solved the problem in a much more humane way.
As for allowing humans to drive, that's obviously barbaric. Few things kill more people than human drivers and they do it while traveling so inefficiently. What were we thinking???
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
|
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
we were just trying to reduce the sewage in the streets from horse traffic
- it worked
_________________
.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7466
Location: WA/ID
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
| Merian wrote: |
we were just trying to reduce the sewage in the streets from horse traffic
- it worked |
Yeah, and the horse-lovers all said the automobile was going to be the end of the world. Sound familiar?
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
|
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22641
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:40 am Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
I think the solution to the aggressive driving problem in autonomous cars will eventually be dash cams tied to LEO.
A line of left turners could armor plate waiting autonomous cars and delay them forever or sqvozing them at every exit.
_________________
.ssS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4087
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
| Abscate wrote: |
| Self driving cars will actually end mass moving as we know it, and that will be a good thing. Congestion will end because the network can drive to Optimiser flow instead of the selfish sqvozing that happens now. The accordion effect in heavy highway flow will finally be gone |
That may seem like it will happen, but with ever increasing population, and more and more single occupant vehicles, congestion will always get worse. After all there is only so much room on the freeway and there will always be slowdowns at exits as the mass of vehicles depart onto the slower side streets.
Remember that there is also the problem of parking those cars. Mass transit alleviates that problem.
Better driving habits will help with traffic flow; personally I think all automatic transmissions should be banned, people with automatics tend to rush forward, filling any gaps, and then jamming on their brakes causing the accordion effect. When you drive a manual vehicle you tend to look ahead and try to stay moving at an even pace to avoid having to engage the clutch.
People who know how to drive manuals also tend to be better educated drivers, having a more thorough understanding of the physics of a moving object. Manuals force the driver to pay more attention to the task of driving.
If the idea of autonomous cars moves forward I think it should be limited to very small and lightweight vehicles.
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bobbyblack
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015
Posts: 4348
Location: United States, Iowa
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Extremely close call |
|
|
I do lament the demise of mass transit, such as rail. It is an obvious solution that was doomed by the barge and truck industry, and allowed to happen by legislation guided by lobbies.
I am a country bumpkin, and only go to the cluttered cities per need. I would like to say that I would use a train from an outskirt car park, and not have a car in the city, but I already DON'T. Im the worst hypocrite I have ever known. I would only get a computer driven car if I can FOR SURE take over the driving functions at any time, as I well know that computers only cause humans to work MORE already.
Take for example, the Mouse. Invented by Xerox, stolen by Apple and Microsoft, and thrust into a once smooth and FAST keystroke driven environment only to slow down EVERY single operation that is human interfaced. Take that into consideration with how a computer driven car will do things. Maybe every single car will be 10 to 20 percent slower, and equally more fuel efficient, but the 3 hour trek to that city will take even longer. Tell me how that will help a guy like me who is rushing their dad to the hospital in their own car because the ambulance coming would take longer than me driving him. Save lives? Cost lives? How about brains? Lost ability over generations of not taking things into one's own hands... I'll sign up for a computer wife first.
_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
