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Sunroof drain tubes & lower quarter panel question...
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67 Sunroof
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 5:35 am    Post subject: Sunroof drain tubes & lower quarter panel question... Reply with quote

Okay, starting to get down into the dirty stuff here. I pulled my sunroof out and would like to replace the 4 drain tubes. 1st off, where do I find the hoses and/or fittings so I can replace them-these look kinda brittle.
Also, the tubes seem to drain down into the front quarter panel down where the defroster vent tubes come up from. If this is true, it seems like a silly place for the water to drain without anywhere to go!!?? I just did the drivers side lower door hinge and quarter panel replacement-pic below:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The passenger side quarter panel is sealed at the bottom!? Where does the water drain to?
Second question:
The drivers side I just repaired has no piece to close off the bottom where the front of the heater tube meets the hose that runs up to the defroster vents. I'm talking about the VERY bottom that faces the ground. It was suggested that I leave it OPEN so there will be air ventilation there and dry out that area. What should I do? Sorry I don't have a picture of the lower part I am describing!
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VOLKSWAGNUT Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much one of the stupidest sunroof drain systems EVER...
Its why metal sliders rot out 3 times faster than hard tops.

The front drain tubes simply are placed into the bowels of the "Bermuda Triangle" by the defrost tube.
IF water enters the drain system it simply drips into the cavity.

The lower (bottom) portion of outer the front quarter skin "should" have an open area for water to drip from..
Its the same for hardtops too in case any water enters the window seal.

Reroute them now to save your car..
Extend and move the rears away from the heater channels and rockers TOO!

Read these....!!!!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6342955
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158249
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=555329
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=292176


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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Last edited by VOLKSWAGNUT on Sat May 03, 2014 6:25 am; edited 4 times in total
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67 Sunroof
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, that's the EXACT place I was talking about. Wasn't sure if anyone would know where I was describing.
So that's probably why this looks like this!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I didn't close up any of that hole-I left a hole 1"x2". Should I close it up a bit more?
I fit the PVC over the lip and used 50yr silicone around the joint. Then I used jb weld's water putty around the bottom of the fitting. Lastly, I sprayed it with primer/paint.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm seriously thinking of running the drain tubes into the small hole that is above the front wheels at the top of the fenders mounting area. There's a small hole there that I could run the tubes into so it would drain out the inner fender well.
What do you think?
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure what you are describing using the PVC and such?

The lower quarter needs to be open some. The size isnt important as long as it breathes and aesthetic to you.

READ those links.. they have good advice for front rerouting.
I also move the rears to exit through the floor rather than on the running board/rocker.
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aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
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67 Sunroof
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PVC piping about 1' long run from the heater channel up to the defroster "y" tube. It fits around the hole perfectly and seems like it will hold up well. I was going to close the hole up some but a classic car buddy of mine said leave it alone-it needs air in there to breathe and dry out IF you have water in there.
Another "issue" I've seen is where the water runs down the rear "lip" it runs into the nook just below the vents and just sits in that corner with nowhere to go!? Another silly thing IMO. Here's a pic of where I am talking about: it's the lower right hand corner that water collects in it. Any advice in this area? I'm doing the bodywork now and would rather address it now than later.
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that area at the bottom of the drip rail/ rear cowl is where condensation on the inner roof of the car might collect, and run down to that spot. You are right, there is no good drain there, but I think it is only condensation that caused it. Keep in mind, its the result of almost 50 years.

What kind of body work you would do to restore it? Good qestion, it would take a very clever metalworker to do it right. (i.e. cutting out the small piece of bad sheetmetal, shape and replace with welding).
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67 Sunroof
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I think I will leave it as is. Clean it up and roll with it. Actually, I can now see where rain gets in the vents and drips down onto the bottom and the bottom is designed to let the water run down as you can see the bottom area. I think it will be alright
Thanks for the help!
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Get yourself some generic connectors and some air hose from your local supply store and run the front drain hoses into the spare wheel well and out.
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or clear vinyl tubing from the hardware... most have it in various sizes in bulk.


.
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aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited
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67 Sunroof
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes much more sense thank you!!!!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is how I'm redoing my drain tubes. I hope this helps someone in the future. It's based on about 15 different drain tube threads on the forum. And my own analysis of my '67.

The rear's are already run down the outside roof channel to the top of the engine lid on each side. (As shown by the red dots in the right side of the top pic.) Just enough below the lip to drain right down the side of the engine bay and onto the ground. (See the second pic. The red dot is where the hose terminates. And drains down the side of the engine bay onto the ground.) Which is a huge improvement over running them down the rear quarter IMHO. It also uses much less hose. And it's a straight shot out of the car.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm running the rear tube to where the red dot is. I'm holding it in place with a zip tie mount and a zip tie. It drains right down the edge of the engine bay there. And onto the ground. Someone did this on my car prior to me. But it's about ten times easier to do than running them down into the rear quarter IMHO. And twice as effective.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The fronts I am running all the way out to the spare tire well. (As seen in the below pic.) So they can drain right out the hole in the bottom of the tire well. Right now they just drain into the bottom of the A pillar. And the water comes out the hole at the bottom of the A pillar. But I don't think it's a good idea to put water down there intentionally. Even if you have existing drain tubes terminating in your A pillars. I would highly suggest adding an extension and running them like the pic below. It's not shown in the pic but the tubing just continues all the way down into the bottom of the tire well.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I agree with the above poster that this Kynar http://www.mcmaster.com/#pvdf/=veozbt is pretty much the same tubing as is in there originally. If not alot better. It's rated to 195F and 180PSI. Which is plenty to deal with heat and cleaning them out with an air hose. I'm trying air hose in 3/8" first. (It has the same specs as Kynar if not better. http://www.mcmaster.com/#air-tool-hose/=veq2mt ) It's about a third to half the price. And has similar specs. It fits in the pillars etc. But I have not tried to fit it over the actual drain spouts on the sunroof. ID of the air hose is 3/8" and OD of the drain spouts is about 1/2" or so. It's going to take some stretching. So if it doesn't work I'm going to use the Kynar above. I thought about 1/2" ID air hose. But the OD of the air hose would not fit inside the pillar crimp points.

I steered clear of PVC hose. As it's specs are not as good. And in high heat they can collapse in on themselves some. Which I would think would promote blockages. The air hose and even the Kynar aren't that much more expensive. And with a full headliner on the line (if it ever leaks again) it's good insurance IMHO.

I'll post some actual pics of my install later in the week. When I get my car back. But I think (after reading just about every post on drain tubes and looking my '67 over closely) that this is the ideal materials and placement for drain tubes. And if you've got your headliner out. You might as well upgrade and/or replace them. Running them in these two locations is quite easy. Especially the rears. The fronts just push right down into the top of the pillar. There's actually enough room there for 2+ hoses. As I tested the air hose along side the existing hose.

I hope this helps someone in the future.

EDIT - Air hose won't work. It's wall thickness is to thick. Looking at Kynar now.
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RossRinSD
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get much rain here in So-cal, though the heat might be a problem...

These are the sizes I used.

[img]
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/img]

I used the 1/2 inch to slide over the metal tubes in the sunroof pan, then the 3/8 tubing to fish over to an appropriate drain location.

Hose clamps or zipties would work to secure the tubing, I elected to use some Goop. Similar to Silicone or E6000
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RossRinSD wrote:
I don't get much rain here in So-cal, though the heat might be a problem...

These are the sizes I used.


I used the 1/2 inch to slide over the metal tubes in the sunroof pan, then the 3/8 tubing to fish over to an appropriate drain location.

Hose clamps or zipties would work to secure the tubing, I elected to use some Goop. Similar to Silicone or E6000


In the end I stuck with the original hose. I couldn't get anything past the blown foam insulation stuff in the rear quarters. And I couldn't remove the foam either. I removed the original hose from there on one side. And ended up having to force it through the foam again in the same place it was before. It drains good. So all is well. I'd hate to have to use scratch hose (especially the softer stuff) through that foam insulation in the rear quarter. Only the stiffest Kynar would probably work. I assume this insulation wasn't in earlier models. So you may have better luck than I did with my '67.

Up front I stuck with the old stuff as well. But the ends in the trunk were a bit brittle so I cut them shorter. So I had solid hose to graft onto. And used the soft clear stuff in 1/2" I think (like above) to extend the tube into the wheel well. I used zipties and ziptie mounts to route it.

I was able to put new clamps on each hose at the drain tubes. So if it ever gets clogged I can use whatever air pressure I want to clear them. (Sometimes the clamps pop off under pressure). So it wasn't a completely useless project. I am glad to know that my hoses are routed to the best places on the car though. No more rust dump into the A pillar or into the bottom of the rear quarter. And the original hose was still stiff and strong with the exception of the last half foot in the trunk. It had been painted. I suspect the paint took something out of the plastic. It was pretty bendy and brittle. Just seemed rotted on that one end.

Does anyone know when they started putting that foam insulation in the rear upper quarter? It makes it a real pain to route any type of hose there. Or was that something another owner did? It looks and feels just like that foam insulation in a can. The yellow stuff.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:42 pm    Post subject: drain hose Reply with quote

Considering the pitiful way VW designed the drain system, I can promise you I'd be finding a better way to drain the water completely overboard. Draining water in an enclosed steel area is completely stupid. The engineers must've thought the cars would be discarded after about 5 or 6 years.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: drain hose Reply with quote

planenut wrote:
Considering the pitiful way VW designed the drain system, I can promise you I'd be finding a better way to drain the water completely overboard. Draining water in an enclosed steel area is completely stupid. The engineers must've thought the cars would be discarded after about 5 or 6 years.



All the manufacturers seem to do it that way. I've run into that problem with Mustangs. Even several years of them, the back seat window/air scoop had a drain like that.

On that lower A-piller drain, I opened the hole in mine up with a stepping drill bit to about 3/4" Mine were completely packed with silt, so now nothing should plug them up. I hava a Baja, so i didn't have any qualms about doing it, even though you can't even see it was done.

And, in my '66, I have that expanding foam in the C-pillars, too
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: drain hose Reply with quote

RossRinSD wrote:


And, in my '66, I have that expanding foam in the C-pillars, too


I started digging at mine with a long screw driver. And quickly realized it was crumbling apart and everything that crumbled out fell into the engine bay. And that I wasn't going to get to all of it. Not good. I could see that stuff falling out into the engine bay and burning or getting clogged someplace. I've also read it collects moisture and can cause rust. Wish I could get it out. But it was all I could do to get the old hose crammed back through it. And draining properly.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do rag-tops have any drains?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dake wrote:
Do rag-tops have any drains?


No.... Totally different set up
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RossRinSD wrote:
I don't get much rain here in So-cal, though the heat might be a problem...

These are the sizes I used.

[img]
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
[/img]

I used the 1/2 inch to slide over the metal tubes in the sunroof pan, then the 3/8 tubing to fish over to an appropriate drain location.

Hose clamps or zipties would work to secure the tubing, I elected to use some Goop. Similar to Silicone or E6000


This is a brilliant idea, smacking myself for not thinking of it, Thanks!
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2022 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: Sunroof drain tubes & lower quarter panel question... Reply with quote

I read on this forum that a 1958 Beetle Ragtop has no water drain tubes. Is that correct? There are no tubes on this one I am restoring and to make some would be in the way of the headliner big time! Thanks for replies in advance!
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