New engine and out of valve adjustment

[chrswlsn]

Just finished new motor and rockers always out of adjustment. Yes, something is defenatly wrong Started with perfect geometry now, after each 20 min run on the stand the rockers need more adjustment Had to adjust them 5 times over 5 runs and things are now getting way out of geo. ALL 8 ROCKERS NEEDED THE SAME ADJUSTMENT ACROSS TH BOARD. everything waring in the same. changed oil 3 times looking for metal. Lucas break in oil and ZDDP each change. Empi-- new 1.25 rockers, new solid shafts, new swivel ball adjusters, new chromolly push rods, new lifters, new Crowler 04 cam new valves and seats SS exhaust valves. Valve stems look good, both ends of rods look good, rocker pockets look good.
Nothing on this motor was out of whack originally It's all been done before. Anyone have similar issue? Where is the most failure in the valve system? I know to disassemble the rockers and blueprint the whole system to check it but anyone else have this????? The only common point is the cam. But all lobes waring equally?

[jason]

You didnt mention if there is any metal present in oil. Probably pushrod ends not assembled all the way in or the swivels are wearing inside. Hows it run?

[oldschool5er]

You said chro mo pushrods so I am assuming you are using a loose zero adjustment since you have ball swivel adjusters? Also are you using lash caps with the swivels? some people do but I do not use them with ball type swivels and I always use loose zero with cro mo pushrods and ball swivels.
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[chrswlsn]

Yes. Loose 0 on adjustment. Single valve springs. Going to take rockers off tomorrow and look closely at the pushrods. The valve stems all look good as well as the swivel balls and rockers. About the 3rd time I adjusted to loose 0 I noticed the pushrod was a bit "sticky" or difficult to turn. Guessing the pushrod tip is trying to seat itself in the lifter. But WOW. It going in seating ALOT. IT SHOULD SHOW on the end of the pushrod.

[chrswlsn]

There was no metal in the oil changes. I even took a magnet in the oil that was drained to see if I could catch anything. Nada.

[chrswlsn]

Has anyone heard of modifying the tip of pushrods or the lifter pocket?
Are some chromolly pushrods tips different?

[FreeBug]

Mr. Tucker regularly reminds us to play special attention to tip ball-socket fit, even goes af far as to recommend grinding a flat on the tips, IIRC.

Everything settles in with a new valvetrain, lash caps to valve stem, lash cap to rocker, lifter to cam, valve to seat, the pushrods,...most of that gets dealt with after the 20 min break in, then I have another look at 500 km and 1000 km, by then things should be pretty stable. If not,there's an issue.

[mark tucker]

tight lash caps can seat.( I dont use tight lashcaps, I do use lashcaps on every engine) the pushrods do need a flat on the ends .also the rocker shafts have 2 diferent size holes for the studs to go through if you put the small hole agnist the head it dosent seat fully and can cause this but the nuts will be loose too after the first run. also there were some adjusters that did not have all the holed drilled in to them when they were made. pul;l a adjuster to check. there should be a through hole and another hole you can not see that go,s from the through hole down to the ball. and be sure your balls are laying flat on the valve not on the round portion of the ball. check to see if the rockers are eating the shafts from not enough oil or mfg debris in them. other than that and the heads being loose(retorque the head studs) unless it's in my shop... I cant see it... also I dont set them at loose zero.zero is zero.not loose or tight but zero.also........rocker side play changes lash.if it's gaining side play it will gain lash too. always set lash with the rocker pulled to the rear of the car.

[MConstable]

Mark, could you explain grinding a flat on the tips?

[FreeBug]

Mr. Tucker, can you please settle an issue i have with valve rotation? Sorry to hijack. Just you have excellent engine longevity, yet you use loose lash caps. Do you see any valve rotation? Is it important? My Berg set up didn't rotate one bit, but I'm not sure what the long-term reliability of such a set-up would have been...I've swapped parts around since.

Just curious about valve rotation, sorry to digress.

[74 Thing]

Check the rocker arm/pushrod seating area. Put the pushrod in and compare how deep each rocker is-I have seen soft rocker arms wear deeper into the arms.

[chrswlsn]

Right now it appears that the lifter socket for the pushrod end aren't matching up---still seating---- not normal. Going to look at it tomorrow.
It should make itself obvious by looking at the pushrod end. I HOPE.
I'll write back on the findings tomorrow evening. Thanks all.

[chrswlsn]

Again. It's all 8 rockers that need adjusting. Not just a couple
REALLY NOT NORMAL.

[chrswlsn]

I ended up taking the rocker shaft off and looks like the socket in the rocker for the push rod is beginning to "tear" around the oil feed hole. The metal in the socket bottom is very thin around the whole. I took a small pin and it was bending within about .050 around the hole edge. Still going to dig deeper tomorrow.

[74 Thing]

Yep, sounds like a lack of quality rocker arms.

[chrswlsn]

Has anyone run into this before? How deep is the cup for the pushrod end normally on a new Empi 1.25 rocker?

[chrswlsn]

[chrswlsn]

This is a picture of number two cylinder top dead center. The one on the left is exhaust. There is a new 1.25 CB performance rocker on the exhaust the one on the right is the intake of the original EMPI 1.25 rocker I almost ran out of adjustment. It appears that the pushrod had augered or gouged into the EMPI rocker causing that much adjustment over 5 20 minute runs. This is obviously a bad set of rockers that maybe werent hardened.

[74 Thing]

Yep, as I indicated earlier I have seen that before. Replace your crap Empi rocker arms with some quality ones, clean out the pushrods and change the oil and filter to get the crap out of the engine.

[jeffinohio]

I just pulled my rockers to reshim them.They have a few thousand miles on them.Had 2 valves I always seemed to be chasing.Worried I was losing lifters.Turns out the push rod was burying itself in the rocker as described above.They were Empi.Just ordered a new set from CB.This is the second,and last lesson I will get from Empi parts.
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