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Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!!
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vamram Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Ok, so before the rear shocks, I decided to look at the heads to see if they can be salvaged. The heads look good - no cracks in the chamber. I already know the valves seat well because the chambers didn't leak when I filled them w/gasoline. Today I removed the valves using the socket/hammer/magnet method to check the play in the guids...7/8 guides have noticeable play when I wiggle the valve while it's in the guide. So it's rebuild time. I'm trying to get a quote for this, hopefully it's worth doing rather than having to buy all new heads.

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Friend of mine says that I should replace the guides and valves together.
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:46 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Victor, we have a guy here in Redding that rebuilds heads for $75 a pop. When the time comes for a rebuild, I’ll have him do mine.

Tim
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Tim, that would be a no-brainer if I could find that price here. The only guy I know in a 50-mile radius that does it wants $386 for both - including new guides & exhaust valves, and fly cutting the cylinder seating surface. For that $$$, i'm better off buying new chinese heads at $149 each.

I could rebuild them myself, but even that is risky as 1.)I've never rebuilt heads before, 2)I'm not sure how I'd get the spring caps and keepers back on, 3) see #1.
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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Save the Supers!!
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vamram Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:08 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Well, after reading thru multiple threads here on valve guides...looks like it's new heads for this engine. I don't have the tools, or the space for the tools, or the skills, to rebuild them correctly.

Anyone out there w/the tools and skills interested in good rebuild-able DP heads...?
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!
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calvinater
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Try NSRacing. He is in Virginia.
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JZ8G00
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Tim, could you provide some contact information for the guy in Redding? $75 a head would be well worth a trip from Sacramento. Thanks
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

JZ, call Wolfgang International. They know who the guy is, and told me about him. This was maybe two years ago, however; so he may charge more by now. Still, $75 bucks a head a few years ago was a good deal. Comparatively, he may still offer this service at a great price.

Tim
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

The cost of a rebuild was prohibitive so I ended up getting new heads opened to 90.5 for 88mm thick walled cylinders. I used one of the old heads to practice tapping the spark plug holes.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Pistons on...'cept #4, pin won't go into the piston sleeve. I'm going to hit it w/heat later and see if that helps.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
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Save the Supers!!
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marknmelcom
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

vamram wrote:

Pistons on...'cept #4, pin won't go into the piston sleeve. I'm going to hit it w/heat later and see if that helps.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Sorry, What?

1. Are you saying that the pin doesn't go into the piston?
or
2. Are you saying the pin doesn't go into the rod?

In either case, heat isn't the right thing to do. They are supposed to be tight, but not interference fit. You should be able to insert the oiled pin only with your fingers. If that's not possible, then the rod bush may need to be honed. If it's the piston, did the pin ship installed from the factory or was it loose in the bag of parts? Does it measure the same OD as the rest?

/Mark
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Clean both the male and female then lightly polish the piston pin with 400 Emory. Oil both before assembly. As stated above it’s a light press fit you can aid this using the female end of a 3/8 drive extension as a drift.

Earlier in your thread you pondered what it would take to replace valves. Look at one of my old build threads. I used a bench vise to hold the head, a big spring compressor. There are easier ways but I used what I had.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

To give Victor a little relief from being bashed.

I had suggested that he heat the piston wrist pin boss to help slide the wrist pin in place. Not hot. Just warmed up to expand the aluminum to get the pin in.

I have had a few wrist pins that are either reluctant to come out or go in.
A little heat helped.
After all, what INC engine doesn't generate heat when its running?
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marknmelcom
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
To give Victor a little relief from being bashed.


No intent here to bash, just want to help a brother out!

/Mark
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Mark, Zund - thanks for the feedback. Here's an update.

- The pin would not start into either end of the piston sleeve/boss. A couple other good folks suggested applying heat to the piston boss and cold to the pin to try and fit it.
- I emailed Ron at Car Craft about the issue and soon after, but before my post above, he personally called to ask about the piston. He had already arranged for AA to send me a replacement p&c for this one, just needed to know if it had the blue or red dot.
- Like half of the valve stems had play w/the valve inserted in the guides and I don't have the tools or experience to rebuild to that extent, so I cut my losses and purchased new heads; i did price out getting these rebuilt by a local VW mechanic but the price was prohibitive, cheaper to buy new. The thread "repair" I practiced above is on one of the original heads...

So....if AA doesn't include an RMA requirement and return instructions, I'll try to get this oversized pin to fit, just to at least practice for future reference.
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

On my build with AA 5.325" rods and AA 88mm thick P's & C's, The pistons were fine, but I found one rod bushing to be really tight for my pin. Too tight. A few swipes with a really small two armed hone helped in my situation.

/M
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Quick update: Replacement P&C have not arrived yet. The pin for the problem piston fits fine into the rod bushing. I'm going to give a shot to Zund's and 67's recommendations just to practice. What the heck, can't hurt. I can always remove it and install the replacement...if it ever arrives.

A friend is telling me that I should ditch the AA rings and replace them w/Grant...damn it. Thoughts...?
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Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

If this is a rather stock engine. You can run the AA rings. It won't hurt.
I am running the AA rings in a 1600 I just completed and started last week.

If, later you're dis-satisfied with the ring breakin. You can hone the cylinders and re-ring with the Grants.

I run grants in my 2180. But it's a little high strung! Very Happy
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Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

An AA ring issue was identified three years ago and there is thread in the engine section that will take all evening to read. Don't clutter your thread here with that. Go over there and see what I mean.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=677232&postorder=asc

It is not apparent to me that the issue remains an issue. I installed the complete AA piston set, jugs, pins, rings, all of it, in my 1600 that has run strong for years and it fired right up this season for my buddy who has it now.

Your milage may vary.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

I'll take a look at the thread. My '73 is running w/the AA pistons and the AA rings they came with, no issues after 8.4k miles since last April...
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Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!
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vamram Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

10 seconds of propane torch heat applied to both bosses worked like a charm -

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Looks like I'll have a spare 88mm piston if AA actually ever sent it. Oh and it's time to install the Cylinders! Tom Wilson (page 133) says to apply Permatex 3H/Aviation - like I used on the case halves - to the base of the cylinders, with or w/out gaskets. I've read to skip the paper gaskets altogether and use copper high temp Permatex instead of the Aviation stuff. I'd prefer to use the Aviation stuff as it's easier to apply and less likely to squeeze in where it's not wanted. Any guidance on this...?

Lastly, I was going to go w/the '74 CA-style dual heat riser and exhaust...just because! Smile I picked up this header modified for correct pre-heat, but now i'm afraid it won't fit w/the spin on oil filter/pump combo and i may need to "modify" it...or just find a stock '74 CA muffler somewhere instead.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!
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vamram Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!! Reply with quote

Got the 3-4 side of the block assembled. Lower cylinder tin in place, heads torqued to 23lbs per Bentley. Wondering about this however. There's a gap of sorts where the base of the head meets the outer-most fin of the cylinder, about .046" of the cylinder sleeve is visible. This is uniform across both cylinders, it's fully inserted and torqued. Is this a problem??

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Heads are opened 90.5 for the 88mm thick walled P&Cs.
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!
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