Yikes! I bought a '74 Super!!

[Mr.Duncan]

[vamram]

[vamram]

Well I got the long block assembled. Including the "stock" repro AA rods, used the Bentley torque specs for everything. Then I read in a different thread that AA rods should be torqued to 29-31 lbs...mine are at 24.

I checked w/that vendor. He replied that these AA rods are torqued to 35!!! UGH. I HAVE TO SPLIT THE F*ING CASE AGAIN?!!??!! WTF??? 29-35?? Split the difference?? Maybe I can just take the heads and cylinders off and torque them thru the holes w/out splitting the case...or dropping a socket in it....

_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!

[Buggeee]

Oh man I remember splitting the case so many times! Hang in there brother.
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1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764

[vamram]

What kills me about this is I've put 8.5k miles on my '73 Super's engine since last April, with the same rods, at the Bentley spec torque. I've had zero engine issues, even after a couple of long road trips up and down the East coast. I'm half tempted to run w/this one as-is too. And an engineer friend of mine whom I respect very much as a VW engine builder has said to just run w/it as is....but I don't think I can handle the anxiety now of having this information...
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!

[Cusser]

I have new connecting rods from CB in my latest engine, and I checked and used the torque values recommended by CB.

I can't say if in your shoes I would take stuff apart either.

"If" you did want to re-torque without splitting the engine case, and are concerned about a socket dropping off the extension into the case, you can buy locking extensions; I have some, and like them. Called 3/8 in. Drive Quick-Release Extension Bar Set

https://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-drive-quick-re...ouEALw_wcB
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_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[vamram]

Thanks for the link Cusser. I'm going to pick up a set of those up and torque them down further w/out splitting the case. Just so frustrating - having to re-extend push rod tubes, remove heads and jugs after the copper RTV is set, cleaning the set copper RTV from the case and cylinders and then re-applying it, reassembling, etc...real freaking PITA. Better than a thrown rod on a run up Bear Mountain though...
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!

[Zundfolge1432]

Did you use Loctite?

[vamram]

[vamram]

Back in VA and started working and driving again. Remeved heads and P&Cs and retorqued the the rod bolts to a higher value than the 24lbs original torque stated in Bentley for factory rods. I got an answer from AA that they needed to be 35ft lbs. Another member in the forum got a reply for 38ft lbs. Mar tucker posted in a performance forum thread to go 29ft lbs. My mechanical engineer friend and highly respected engine builder - this guy measures EVRYTHING,cuts his own push rods and so on and so forth - thinks 35 is too high. The numbers are all over the place. Sooooo.....i split the difference and went 32.

I am concerned about the motor I rebuilt last year and am running in my '73 because I used the same AA rods torqued to the Bentley specs. Motor runs great after 8.5k miles but now I'm paranoid that I'm going to end up destroying it one day because the rod bolts are going to come loose.
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!

[Lost69Convertible]

Hi Vamram - As a mech engineer, I’ve sent a large number of bolted assemblies through shock, vibration, temperature cycling, and service load life cycling until failure. I can say that torquing fasteners to spec (and no higher) is extremely important for success. And over torquing fasteners is high risk. Over torquing is most likely to cause high torque loss and clamp force reduction because the combination of high torque stress and service load stress exceeds the elastic limit of the assembly. In other words- the nuts and bolts permanently deform and stretch. I hope this helps.

On a related note, I think Loctite Corp has spread a lot of questionable information in their zeal to market their products for all-metal assemblies.
_________________
1956 Beetle Ragtop: My Father's car
1969 Beetle Convertible: My first car. I loved it, I lost it, and I never got over it.
1979 Super Beetle Convertible

[vamram]

Thanks Lost69....so you're saying to take it to 35...?
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!

[Lost69Convertible]

I'm reluctant to recommend a specific torque because I don't have experience with your exact parts.

But the difference between VW's use of 24 lb-ft with original parts and 38 ib-ft recommended for aftermarket parts is concerning to me. That's more than a 50% increase.

If I was in your situation, I'd tend towards using a lower torque value, closer to the VW specification.
_________________
1956 Beetle Ragtop: My Father's car
1969 Beetle Convertible: My first car. I loved it, I lost it, and I never got over it.
1979 Super Beetle Convertible

[viiking]

[vamram]

Took a break for long-block re-assembly to begin addressing other issues on ol' '74.

First the brakes. Rears were almost down to barely over 1mm at the top half of the rear passenger-side shoe. I managed to put close to 20k miles on these. This is before disassembly, when I cleaned, primered and painted the backing plate and drum w/VHT caliper paint. New wheel cylinders, shoes and spring kit ready for installation, after cleaning and treating the new wheel cylinders w/the ATE brake paste.

On the front, going w/a Topline disc conversion. Kit is a breeze to install.

_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!

[Rome]

[vamram]

Lol, yes I'll post pics when the rear brakes are put together with shiny new parts and the painted back plate, adjusting stars all nice. Just shoes from rockauto, nothing fancy.
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!

[Tim Donahoe]

Victor, the front disc is beautiful! You’ll love them!

Tim
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Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[vamram]

Yeah, Tim I hadn't seriously considered them until I got my '73 Super on the road last year. The previous owner had installed them but never driven it.
The difference is mind-boggling, so I figured it's time to show ol' '74 a little love.

Here you go Rome. First, a sample of the corroded pistons from one of the old wheel cylinders. They were pretty much all four the same.

And the finished product, all nice and clean. The paint is just to provide some protection to the metal of course since no one will ever see it outside of this picutre.

Next on the agenda for ol' '74 is some electrical rewiring. I had a parasitic drain somewhere before parking it that I never successfully traced. I suspect the way I wired my USB/12v-socket add-on connector may be partly to blame so I'll be re-doing it's wiring to match how I did it on the '73. Also want to wire the unused #7 fuse spot for power as I did on my '73.
_________________
Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!

'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!!

[Rome]

'Atta way with the brake reconditioning, vamram!