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Front end nose dive
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wellcraft
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:41 pm    Post subject: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

I bought my standard with drop spindles and added one of those front beam adjusters, I have almost new shocks, but since I have 8" wide wheels I had to lift the car more than usual as I wanted to avoid the tire from touching the front fenders. The problem I have is that when I brake i have nose dive and the bug look like a 4x4. If i brake hard the front tires touch the fenders and I have like 4" between the tires and the fenders.

My question is, is the anyway to stiffen the front suspension so it doesn't do the nose dive that easy, I would like to lower it a bit to close that gap but I need to stiffen the suspension before.

I don't remember this happening when i was using the stock wheels with the drop spindles and no adjusters when I bought it back 2 years ago.

What do u guys suggest or recommend?


Last edited by wellcraft on Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wellcraft
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

I'm wondering now if I should put stock spindles which i have in my garage and do the necessary adjustments. When I welded the adjuster I still used the drop spindles and welded the adjusters with the setting in the middle but right now I'm at the maximum setting. Would it be better to use the stock spindles and adjust or its not going to make any difference?

I assume this should work better as the adjustment would be drastically less than with the drop spindles, but im not sure if it would fix the nose dive. It feels like there isn't much tension i guess as if I push the front end downward its very easy to do.
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ps2375
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

Different shocks might help this.Depending upon wheel offsets, you may need to narrow the beam some. I know I needed to narrow mine some with the dropped spindles and my current wheels, so I took the spindles off for now, I may go with wider fenders in the future.
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FullFender
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

ps2375 wrote:
Different shocks might help this.Depending upon wheel offsets, you may need to narrow the beam some. I know I needed to narrow mine some with the dropped spindles and my current wheels, so I took the spindles off for now, I may go with wider fenders in the future.

x2 and narrowing the beam will stiffen it some
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wellcraft
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

The thing is that I'm tring to get the wheels flush with the fenders and if I go with a narrow beam I won't be able to achieve that look.
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wellcraft
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

Forgot to mention that I have the kyb black excel shocks.
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ps2375
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

With the width of the fender lips on bugs, flush w/o a rub will be more difficult to achieve.
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wellcraft
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

ps2375 wrote:
With the width of the fender lips on bugs, flush w/o a rub will be more difficult to achieve.


That's what I realized, im making a custom fiber glass fenders but the lips is the issues I'm having.

Are there stiffer torsion springs in the market for the standard bugs?

Pretty sure I could fix it if they are available.
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ps2375
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

wellcraft wrote:

Are there stiffer torsion springs in the market for the standard bugs?

Pretty sure I could fix it if they are available.


I've seen them mentioned, check with venders that sell ACVW parts and spring suppliers.
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wellcraft
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

This is the only thing I've been able to find http://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Scr...af-springs
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60ragtop
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

how about these?
http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/torsion-leaves-1966-1977-heavy-duty-311461-4
https://swayaway.com/product/torsion-leaves-balljoint-front-end-3-leaves-15-stiffer/

or maybe even new stock leaves might help.
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wellcraft
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

60ragtop wrote:
how about these?
http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/torsion-leaves-1966-1977-heavy-duty-311461-4

or maybe even new stock leaves might help.


Thanks for that link, I checked that Web site but didn't find anything, the others I found are a lot cheaper, $300 is steap, wonder how stiff would be the ones that are 30% stiffer than stock.
I thought about new stock ones but I'm afraid if they don't make much difference. I don't really know how many miles this car has so is difficult to say if they have lost some tension.
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Dwayne1m
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

A common mistake about shocks is that people think they are a spring. They are not. Shocks only control the speed at which the weight is transferred. Springs/torsion bars control the amount of body roll & weight transferred...

* along with roll center & ride height of the car but then we're really going into complex chassis setup.
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wellcraft
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

60ragtop wrote:
how about these?
http://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/torsion-leaves-1966-1977-heavy-duty-311461-4
https://swayaway.com/product/torsion-leaves-balljoint-front-end-3-leaves-15-stiffer/

or maybe even new stock leaves might help.


My bad, I just realized the link I posted is for link pins and I totally missed ur second link.
I'll be giving them a call today to find out how bad it could be 15% or 30% stiffer for street use.

Our roads here in augusta ga are really good with an occasional potholes, now if I go to south Carolina they aren't that good but I don't go there much anyelway, we live in the border with sc.

Anyonehas experience with one of them in the street?
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wellcraft
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

Been looking some pics of German look beetles and I noticed there are lots of them lowered and tires flush with fenders and I wonder how they are able to run those set ups without rubbing issues. That's what I'm looking for.

My issue is rubbing when braking hard without passengers and rubbing while cornering semi hard but also the nose dive. Today I paid more attention and realized that even going very slow (5mph) it does the nose dive.

I talked to a company tha told me I would need a combination of the HD front sleeves with adjustable front shocks but he mentioned me brands like fox, kyb agx and I'm not able to find them for old bugs. I do have kyb but they are excel black.

So how people are able to run low, flush look and no rubbing?

Would the solution be a race beetle suspension set up?

Thanks.
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wellcraft
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

Haven't been able to figure out how to control the nose dive and was wondering if there is a good adjustable shocks for beetles, only thing I have found are these type of coilovers but I wonder how good or bad are those and if they would fix my problem


What do u think http://chircoestore.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Adjustable+shocks
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57BLITZ
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

wellcraft wrote:
I don't remember this happening when i was using the stock wheels with the drop spindles and no adjusters when I bought it back 2 years ago.
What do u guys suggest or recommend?


Put stock spindles back on it!
Then, use the adjuster (do you have only one ?) to drop the front suspension!
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wellcraft
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

57BLITZ wrote:
wellcraft wrote:
I don't remember this happening when i was using the stock wheels with the drop spindles and no adjusters when I bought it back 2 years ago.
What do u guys suggest or recommend?


Put stock spindles back on it!
Then, use the adjuster (do you have only one ?) to drop the front suspension!


Can do that, i have adjusters on top and bottom.
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slalombuggy
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

When you put the torsion springs in, did you install them the exact same way they came out? If you put them in 180* out they may well be softer. Torsion springs tend to take a set in one direction and when installed the other way soon collapse.

brad
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wellcraft
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Front end nose dive Reply with quote

slalombuggy wrote:
When you put the torsion springs in, did you install them the exact same way they came out? If you put them in 180* out they may well be softer. Torsion springs tend to take a set in one direction and when installed the other way soon collapse.

brad


Thats a great questioj and to be honest i didn't pay attention to that as i didn't know.

Is there any wwy to tell tye correct way if i take things apart?
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