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Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC
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jtchristopher
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:54 pm    Post subject: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

Hi -

I'm new to the EuroVan Camper -- actually two weeks now -- and am slowly sorting out an example in phenomenal condition. I find the van stops a bit slower than I'd like and am curious of what the collective brain-trust recommends.

The '95 van is bone stock with 69K miles and I'm sure these are not the original brakes. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

The EVCs are rather portly especially when considered against the rest of the T4 line up. That said I have driven several of the EVCs and one of them a '95 a few weeks ago. The brakes were in 90% condition front and back. I had just done a fresh bleed on them. When I road tested it, it stopped acceptably and with a similar "feel" as my '92 T4 DoKa (which would be quite a bit lighter).

I would first make sure your brakes are in top physical condition before moving on to upgrades. Have you inspected them?

Later T4s moved into disc brakes front and rear. In '01 with the intro of the 24V VR engine VW installed later front brakes. These can be added to a short nose T4. This upgrade will require 16" wheels.
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jtchristopher
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

Great insights - thanks. I'm likely to not get into the brakes for a couple of weeks as I've been concentrating on the few remaining loose ends to button up the top of the camper.

I'll report back in when I'm done with the brake review. Thanks again.
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wildenbeast
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

My EV Weekender has the later 2001-2003 brakes. It was a bigger job than I anticipated but makes the van feel much safer. Here's what you'll need:

16" wheels
front spindles
all four brake calipers (front and back)
all four brake rotors (313x26mm ATE rotor is the largest)
rear trailing arms
front upper / lower control arms

It's replacing the control arms that is probably the biggest PITA.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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gakali
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

I'd be tempted to look for some full metallic pads. The aggressive pads will be hard on rotors but it might be the way to go. A proper fluid flush could help. Also take a good look at all flex hoses for bulges while a helper stands on the brake pedal.
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Last edited by gakali on Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jjvincent
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

gakali wrote:
I'd be tempted to look for some full metallic pads. The aggressive pads will be hard on rotors but it might be the way to go. A proper fluid flush could help. Also take a good look at all 6 flex hoses for bulges while a helper stands on the brake pedal.
That's a good idea. Plus old brake hoses can collapse in on themselves and you'll never see it. Plus you might want to search for different brands. Companies like EBC make delivery van brake pads also and since they are an English company, they probably make pads for a T4.
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Xtremjeepn
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

These are the calipers for Bills Syncro van above.

Stock 1993 front caliper vs the 2001+ front caliper.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


1993 front rotors compared to 2001+

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is of course why they need 16"+ wheels.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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jtchristopher
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

Again, thanks all. The van is in for a timing belt replacement and related system overview - repair - replacement as the first thing to be addressed.

Once returned I'll begin the process of sorting the very few things that are unusual to me -- like handling and brakes.

It is great that this group can rally around these things; it helps me to keep an open mind as I move forward. Once I've get my head around the brakes I'll report in.

Thanks.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

I replaced the stock rear drums with discs on my 95 EVC. I located a set of trailing arms from a 99 EVC and did the switch.

It was a plug and play deal, very straightforward. In addition to the added rear discs, the trailing arms widen the stance a little at the rear for better handling.

It does require an alignment when you are done .
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:39 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

wildenbeast wrote:
My EV Weekender has the later 2001-2003 brakes. It was a bigger job than I anticipated but makes the van feel much safer. Here's what you'll need:

16" wheels
front spindles
all four brake calipers (front and back)
all four brake rotors (313x26mm ATE rotor is the largest)
rear trailing arms
front upper / lower control arms

It's replacing the control arms that is probably the biggest PITA.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Wow, Bill i wouldn't have guessed it was that complex. I would have thought the rear trailing arms would have simply required the Disc hubs and that the front hubs. Not trailing arm and control arm replacement! Basically means you need a parts van or access to one.
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wildenbeast
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

Hey Rob- I didn't think it was going to be that complex either. I knew that no one had really documented the process and I was going down an unknown path. However, the braking on this van was horrible compared to the Vanagon I was driving (which had the GoWesty big brake kit).

Since I have little ones that would be traveling in this van, I was willing to make the upgrade.

We only realized the control arms were needed after all the other pieces were done. We couldn't get the alignment to come into spec without the control arms. I can't remember but it looked like maybe just the upper or just the lower would be needed, but since I could get both off a parts van for a great price, I just went for it and replaced all the bushings at the same time too. I was getting frustrated with this van for some time, but now it runs, drives, and brakes quite nicely.

CdnVWJunkie wrote:

Wow, Bill i wouldn't have guessed it was that complex. I would have thought the rear trailing arms would have simply required the Disc hubs and that the front hubs. Not trailing arm and control arm replacement! Basically means you need a parts van or access to one.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

Good info Bill. Thanks.
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d-9
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:00 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

The later brakes with 313mm rotors will bolt on to the earlier front uprights if you drill the holes out from 16mm to 18mm. Can't comment on a really early van like a '93, but definitely true for the majority of years.

These big calipers are available on the ford sharan/VW galaxy/seat Alhambra minivans, don't know if you had those in America, but over here you can pick up the big front calipers from $30-300 depending on where you buy and condition. I pulled mine off a wrecked minivan for $30, replaced the seals and fitted with new pads and disks for about $150.

Upgrading the rear with minivan brakes is even easier, the calipers are the same on the rear of the t4 and the rear of the minivan, you just fit the bigger discs and different carriers(yokes) from the minivan. Obviously this doesn't work on a t4 with drum brakes, which have a narrower track rear end. Haven heard of anyone having alignment issues after upgrading brakes, but that may just mean they haven't had it checked properly.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

To clarify, my van is a '93 van that had 15" wheels and rear drum brakes. To upgrade to 16" wheels, you would need to upgrade the rear brakes to discs. There was not an alignment shop problem. I used the same shop that all the VW repair places in town send their Eurovans, Vanagons, and especially Syncros... Comparing part specs (dimensions) and model numbers is what led to replacing the control arms to the later model style. It was definitely a huge undertaking.

d-9 wrote:
Can't comment on a really early van like a '93, but definitely true for the majority of years.

Obviously this doesn't work on a t4 with drum brakes, which have a narrower track rear end. Haven heard of anyone having alignment issues after upgrading brakes, but that may just mean they haven't had it checked properly.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

Opinions on this?

http://pbbrakes.com/volkswagen-t4-van-transporter-t4-90-03-front-big-brake-kit.html

There is a Brembo kit on ebay using a Mercedes disc (brembo calipers not included) -- looks like the adapter might be the same.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Transporter-T4-BIG-BRAK...mp;vxp=mtr
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

That Brembo kit looks like it uses the same rotors as I added to my Mercedes. My "kit" came from an SL600 (V12) and use four piston Brembo calipers. They stop like right now. I think that's essentially the same size rotor as is factory units on my '01, so assuming the offset is the same, then only the caliper adapters would be worth the investment.

My Vanagon is outfitted with Jaguar four piston Girlings along with an early model T4 front rotor. The stopping power is excellent.

I think if you already have a late model T4, then brake kits are probably unnecessary, but the early models could probably benefit from a well designed aftermarket kit, or just an upgrade to a late model system.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

wildenbeast wrote:
To clarify, my van is a '93 van that had 15" wheels and rear drum brakes. To upgrade to 16" wheels, you would need to upgrade the rear brakes to discs.
[/quote]

Is this a typo? You can upgrade to 16" wheels with rear drum brakes without issue. The 16" wheels drop right on.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

No talk of upgrading the master cylinder here. I've done the 2001-2004 brake swap on my 99 without upgrading the master cylinder. No problems. it's the same part number as a 2001.

Wildenbeast, are you still running the stock 93 master cylinder?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

It is indeed a '93 master cylinder. It was replaced around the same time I upgraded the brakes.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Bigger or Better Brakes for '95 EVC Reply with quote

Thank you! That helps. My Doka is going to get a similar upgrade shortly. I wasn't sure what needed to happen with the master cylinder.
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