Failing Syncro Rebuilt Transaxle

[Syncro Jael]

I am starting this topic to help others understand new gearbox noises and what they could be. This transaxle has been in use for almost 11 months and around 18,000 miles after it's rebuild. All bearings and the main shaft were to have been replaced. It has all aluminum housings and gear carrier. It has always had Swepco 201 inside. This box has never seen extreme off-road use. I have a cooling and filtering system attached. The box has never seen a gear oil temp above 165°f. The gear oil has been completely changed twice since installed. I am also running an EJ22 Subaru conversion.

Here is the sound it makes when stone cold in neutral. The microphone was sitting on the transaxle and when cold this is the loudest it is. Once the gear oil and box warm up the sound almost goes away. When depressing the clutch the sound will stop. Then start again when you let off the clutch pedal.
This sounds like a bearing beginning to fail. Main shaft bearing? You can hear me depress the clutch and let off several times.


Link


Here is the swarf the Weddle Filter and Magnetic Filter captured on the second gear oil change.



Link


Here is the swarf the Weddle Filter and Magnetic Filter captured on the first gear oil change.


Link


Once I get the box to a re-builder I will update what is going on inside.

The box is out today.

Swapping components to the next rebuild.

_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

[MayorMcCheese]

and it's not the throw out bearing or the pilot bearing?

[Syncro Jael]

When the clutch is disengaged, the transmission’s input shaft and the engine’s crankshaft are rotating at different speeds. The pilot bearing allows for this difference. This is why a faulty pilot bearing makes its most noise when the clutch pedal is completely depressed and the clutch itself is completely disengaged. It’s located in the center of the crankshaft flange or flywheel.

A worn or damaged pilot bearing will make a whining or grinding noise. It will be very loud if the bearing is completely damaged. It occurs whenever the crankshaft and input shaft are rotating at different speeds. A clutch release bearing is different; it will make a chirping or squealing noise as soon as the bearing touches the pressure plate’s diaphragm. Note that release bearings make noise with much less pedal travel.

The clutch release or throw out bearing depresses the pressure plate fingers, releasing the clutch. It contains a bearing that spins along with the spinning pressure plate as the clutch pedal is depressed. If this bearing is worn, a squealing or growling noise will be heard when applying the clutch pedal. A noisy release bearing will be heard through the transmission’s clutch housing.

EDIT: I wish it was one of these! Once the gear box internals get rotating, this is the sound I am hearing.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

[Gnarlodious]

Sounds familiar. I had an unfortunate situation where I installed my freshly rebuilt 5-speed onto a VW industrial diesel 1Y engine. I suspect the bore in the crankshaft was not deep enough, because the tip of the input shaft bottomed out inside the bore. The transmission bolted down just fine, but when I first drove it the clutch would not release. I had to put it in gear, crank up the engine and then it squealed and the gears were a little stiff. For a few days it would squeal in gear with the pedal down, then it stopped. I figured it was just a break-in as I had never driven a rebuilt transmission before.

Over the next year of driving the transmission began to tick-tick-tick and rumble when idling in neutral. That engine exploded due to defective machining, and so it seemed the engine came with two machining errors, which is why it was a cheap VW factory engine. When I took the broken engine out I got to see the damage on the input shaft, it was slightly mushroomed on the tip. This explained my transmission noise, the bearing on the input shaft was not meant to be a thrust bearing. I figured it was damaged and making the noise.

That 5-speed sits at Mr GAS in Colorado Springs awaiting a diagnosis. Its also possible that since I installed the input shaft myself along with the bellhousing that I did not screw it in far enough and its my own fault all this happened. When Mr GAS takes it apart I guess I’ll find out who is to blame.
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Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[quattro syncro van]

Hi, I am new here and a new Syncro van owner.
I have read most of what has been posted in this forum and a few others that I could find.
These Syncro vans sure do have a weak link, the transmission.

[Jon_slider]

SJ was not seeing hardly any metal fines on his tranny drain magnet

if his issue is a "crap rebuild" maybe there would be more?
if the tranny failures are due to bad heat treat of the ring and pinion, maybe there would be more?

if the tranny failure is due to the configuration of the vehicle exceeding the design limits of the tranny, would there be more metal fines?

I honestly don't know. My point is that magnets don't tell the whole story, and crap rebuild is imho just speculation.

fwiw, Im pretty sure we are all having issues with boxes that were built by AA Transaxle. But honestly, I dont think its the build, more likely just too heavy a vehicle for the tranny, too much load on the box..

I hope you figure out how to stop the tranny destruction.. My heart goes out to you, and your wallet
_________________
My Soapboxes: Inflation; Handling; Gearing; Decoupling; Swepco

[Syncro Jael]

Just for the record I am not pointing any fingers at the re-builder on this box. It could be a number of things. Machines break down. Once I get it opened up and see, then I can make an assessment of the probable failure.

Hopefully I caught it early on before any damage to the main shaft occurred.
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

[quattro syncro van]

Like I said, you have a good attitude and seem like a straight shooter.
Sorry to read about all of these problems with your van.

Finger pointing is for the other guy who dominates transmission threads.

Thank you for starting your own post.

[flomulgator]

SJ, to take a look at this from another angle, what's your wet weight and RPM @60 mph?

Also are you going to DOB? Would be cool to see this rig in-person and there will be a couple very knowledgeable tranny folk there.
_________________
She's built like a steakhouse, but she handles like a bistro!

[Jon_slider]

[Sodo]

[quattro syncro van]

Hey, again, thanks, I hear you loud and clear and will not waste any of my money on trying to rebuild these outdated transmissions.

[Sodo]

Quattro nSyncro Van your wealth of knowledge for a first time poster is amazing, but you seem to carry a lot of baggage. ...such transaxle aversion....sounds like you could have more failed rebuilds on your plate than the rest of us combined!

(Edit----- Oops what I wrote above refers to Quattro nSyncro Vans off-topic rambling - which was deleted by a moderator)

Syncro Jael your willingness to tear into an 18,000 mile rebuild based on an emerging sound,,, is awesome and members will be very interested.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[quattro syncro van]

You lost me?
Baggage?

[jberger]

Wow.. that is an interesting sound. Are you able to pull the shift shaft out for a quick check? If the mainshaft bearing is shifting in it bore 2nd gear can come into contact with the shift shaft. Did this box make any noise related to tire speed? Do you know if you had stock nylon caged needle bearings in the freewheeling gears, or solid packed or steel caged? Was the mainshaft needle bearing upgraded?

[alijonny]

Quattro syncro van, You must be new to forums in general considering how quick you got rid of your syncro drivetrain. I mean, good on you to try and figure out a Subaru setup that will work, but haven't you realized that NO ONE EVER gives as many compliments when something is working correctly on a forum than if it was failing/acting up?

It's true with almost all forums, you will find out what goes wrong mainly with a certain vehicle and see all kinds of people, lets say 20%, trying to figure out a particular problem or complaining about the same thing, but what you don't see is the 80% out enjoying and not posting their successes. you will find the 80% posting pictures at the top of a mountain or out camping (our group anyway)!.

Either way, good luck with your endeavor, I really hope to see a viable solution when my syncro bits bite the dust.
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1965 Beetle
1990 Syncro Westfalia
1983 Westfalia

[quattro syncro van]

The amount of information here is a big help.

[Zeitgeist 13]

If you're indeed having Flint set up your van for a Quattro drivetrain, then you can rest assured that you're in the best of hands and made an excellent choice.
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[quattro syncro van]

Sorry to the Syncro Jael.

[Jake de Villiers]

Now that the box is out, how does the throwout bearing feel?
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'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
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http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
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