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furgo Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016 Posts: 944 Location: Southern Germany
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:27 am Post subject: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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VW T2 hubcap identification guide
There were only two types of original hubcap types for the VW T2:
• the early bay ones ('68-'70) are popularly known as domed or baby moon hubcaps;
• the late bay ones ('71-'79) are known as flat caps.
Domed hubcaps (left) were for early models until 1970, flat hubcaps (right) subsequently took over
With the introduction of the T3, a slightly different type of flat hubcaps with a higher outer rim were made available. They will also fit the T2b and are nowadays the only parts still available from VW #251 601 151 A.
Flat hubcaps evolution: original (left) vs. later caps with a higher outer rim (right). Either will fit a '71-'79 bus with stock rims
Hubcaps were either chromed or painted: in the early years the non-deluxe buses were fitted with spray-painted hubcaps. These were mainly for German vehicles, the export models were soon after delivered with chromed hubcaps.
You can skip the rest
If you are not interested in the facts and a bit of history, you can skip the next sections. In summary, assuming your bus has got stock rims (check them out and compare them with the first picture), it all boils down to the question:
Do you own a ...?
• '68-'70 bus - you'll need domed hubcaps
• '71-'79 bus - you'll need flat hubcaps, either type will do.
Domed hubcaps
Code: |
| Part # | Chassis # | Fits type and model | Coating |
|-------------|-------------------------|-----------------------------|------------|
| 111 601 151 | to 210 2 300 000 (1970) | 211-216, 231-235, 261-268 | Primed |
| 113 601 151 | to 210 2 300 000 (1970) | 221-228, 241, 244, 271, 274 | Chromed |
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• Diameter: 280 mm (11 in)
• Height: 80 mm
• Weight: 456 g
The hubcaps for the Early Bay (T2a, from '68-'70), which match rims with the Wide 5 factory bolt pattern (aka 5x205, 5 bolts distributed along a 205 mm circumference) and the drum brakes at the front. They are fitted via clips attached to the rims and are also known as baby moon hubcaps (as opposed to full moon caps, which cover the entire wheel instead of just the center).
Note: #111 601 151 is still available from VW, but as a blank part (not primed).
Flat hubcaps
Flat hubcaps (thin)
Code: |
| Part # | Chassis # | Fits type and model | Coating |
|---------------|---------------------------|-----------------------------|---------|
| 111 601 151 E | from 211 2 000 001 (1971) | 211-216, 231-235, 261-268 | Primed |
| 311 601 151 D | from 211 2 000 001 (1971) | 221-228, 241, 244, 271, 274 | Chromed |
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• Diameter: 256 mm (10 in)
• Height: TBD
• Weight: 399 g (chromed)
The hubcaps for the Late Bay (T2b, from '71-'79), fitted to the rims with the 5x112 factory bolt pattern and the disc brakes at the front. They are held by pressure on the 3 bulges in a triangular arrangement along the inner ring that contains the lugs that hold the wheel. They are no longer available as original VW replacement parts.
Flat hubcaps (fat)
Code: |
| Part # | Chassis # | Fits type and model | Coating |
|---------------|---------------------------|-----------------------------|---------|
| 251 601 151 A | from 211 2 000 001 (1971) | 221-228, 241, 244, 271, 274 | Chromed |
| 251 601 151 | from 211 2 000 001 (1971) | 211-216, 231-235, 261-268 | Primed |
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• Diameter: 256 mm (10 in)
• Height: 53 mm (chromed)/50 mm (primed)
• Weight: 410 g (chromed)/380 g (primed)
With the introduction of the T3 in 1979 the flat hubcaps were slightly redesigned to give them a higher outer rim. Some experts say these hubcaps were introduced earlier than '79, but there seem to be no sources to confirm. In any case, they are the only parts available from VW (#251 601 151 A, #251 601 151) at the time of writing, and are used as replacement for the original, no longer available, hubcaps on several other VW models of the time (Beetle, Karmann Ghia, Type 3, Type 4, T3, etc.)
Motivation
Ever since I got my bus this forum has been an incredible source of information and everyone's posts have always helped me solve doubts and fix or move forward with the issues I've encountered. I've long wanted to contribute back as a way to say thanks for the guidance so far and the one that is to come
It all started with my search for the hubcaps that would fit my '79 Westy: the info I found was scattered around the net and even a visit to a local parts exchange did not solve my questions. Ever since then, I've been doing some research and I've put the results in this post: a more of a practical guide to hubcap types and sizes for VW T2 that I'm hoping can help others too
Some notes:
- This is a first draft: I'll keep updating it and corrections, comments and in general feedback to improve it will be much welcome!
- This is not a treaty on VW history. It is strictly limited to the T2 bus to make it easier to use and does not deal with compatibility or history of other VW models (e.g. T1, Beetle...)
- I've borrowed a picture from another thread in the forum and modified it slightly. I hope that's fine, and in any case, I've clearly listed that thread as a source.
- I could not find a way to render tables in a forum post. As such the tables in the post look quite raw atm.
- I've named the T3 hubcaps "flat with higher outer rim". The use of "rim" be slightly confusing when talking about wheel rims. I could have used "flat with higher fringe" or "fat flat hubcaps" or something else. Suggestions on nomenclature are also welcome.
Sources
1. VW bus chassis numbers page at The Samba
2. Flat vs. flat higher hubcaps picture at The Samba Bay Window Bus Forum
3. VW T2 parts document from Amescador
4. Flat VW T3 hubcaps at VW Classic Parts
5. Hubcaps thread at the German VW T2 forum
6. Early Bay Parts Manual
7. Late Bay Parts Microfiches
8. VAG Part Catalog
Last edited by furgo on Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:24 am; edited 16 times in total |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12728 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:17 am Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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Yes. Yes yes yes. This is even better than my treatise on throttle positioners.
Robbie _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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Added
Tech Tips>PARTS IDENTIFICATION>Hub Cap ID
Thank you
Tcash |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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Nice job with this! _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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70Crew Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2006 Posts: 776 Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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Furgo has 19 total posts and he comes up with this? Welcome to the bay forum! _________________ 1970 Crew Cab |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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70Crew wrote: |
Furgo has 19 total posts and he comes up with this? Welcome to the bay forum! |
And... and... he's not a grouchy old bastard!
Truely, WELCOME!! _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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Here is some more information. Feel free to incorporate what you choose.
T2 Hub caps - Wheel disc
1968-70
111 601 151 Primed
113 601 151 Chromed
1971-79
111 601 151 E
251 601 151 Primed
251 601 151 A Chromed
311 601 151 D Chromed
Note: 311 601 151 D came out of the 1968-72 parts manual and is described as being used from chasis number 211 2000 001. Which is the first T2 off the line in 1971. The first three digits of the part number specify the model, which in this case is 311 = Fastback.
So if the parts manual is correct the Type 3 hub caps where availible in 1971?
http://www.jerseylooker.com/FicheDump/EarlyBaywindow/6-003.jpg
VW Part Numbers Explained
111 601 151 1950-70. This must be one of those parts that was modified but the part number remained the same and was not given a modification code at the end ie (A,B,C) of the part number.
NOS 111 601 151: note the VW script is different and bridged at the bottom of the V.
Anyone know what year this ended?
Note: the Hub Cap removal holes are located at 12 & 6 O'clock. Some aftermarket caps the holes are located at 9 & 3.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7703356#7703356
NOS chrome hubcap, 19.2oz
Grey hubcap, NOS, varied in weight from 17.3oz to 18.9oz
Grey hubcap, NOS, 18.9oz
vwed wrote: NOS Silver Grey Hubcaps, Correct for commercial late Bays, rather than microbuses/campers that had chrome ones.
NOS 251 601 151 Black wheel hub cap t2b
Joe Caraway wrote: 3 differnt nos hub caps
RareAir wrote: NOS hubcap remover, "bear claw" hub cap tool. Part #000 093 001.
Thanks again for posting
Tcash
Last edited by Tcash on Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:31 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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Great post(s), to add a little the painted logo is an early splitty thing, bays never had those. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16971 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
70Crew wrote: |
Furgo has 19 total posts and he comes up with this? Welcome to the bay forum! |
And... and... he's not a grouchy old bastard!
Truely, WELCOME!! |
Just give him time _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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furgo Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016 Posts: 944 Location: Southern Germany
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:57 am Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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aeromech wrote: |
wcfvw69 wrote: |
70Crew wrote: |
Furgo has 19 total posts and he comes up with this? Welcome to the bay forum! |
And... and... he's not a grouchy old bastard!
Truely, WELCOME!! |
Just give him time |
Lol, I hope not! Thanks everyone for the replies and the additional info |
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furgo Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016 Posts: 944 Location: Southern Germany
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:35 am Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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Tcash wrote: |
Here is some more information. Feel free to incorporate what you choose.
T2 Hub caps - Wheel disc
1968-70
111 601 151 Primed
113 601 151 Chromed
|
Thanks a lot for the great info and the pics!
I do have a couple of questions:
Domed hubcaps part numbers
1) 113 601 151 Chromed - this is listed in the parts manual I originally looked at from the Amescador site as a "to 1970" part, the same as your parts manual scan. But in the diagrams, it corresponds to a flat hubcap, which were started to be used on buses from '71 onwards.
On the Late Baywindow Bus Parts Fiches there is a discrepancy with the Early Bay Parts Manual where #113 601 151 is now for domed hubcaps instead of flat. Given that they are specified for buses until '70 that would now make more sense to me.
However, I'm still confused, would this be a case of an error in the Early Bay Parts Manual?
UPDATE: after looking again at the Early Bay Parts Manual, I think I can answer my own question. It seems a case of someone mistyping (8 ) instead of (7) in the Key column. Guide updated to reflect that.
Early Bay Parts Manual shows #113 601 151 as flat
Late Bay Parts Manual shows #113 601 151 as domed
The scanned microfiche was heavily scratched, so I ended up writing down the table for readability:
Code: |
FIG PART NO. DESIGNATION REMARKS QT MODEL
|=====|=================|===============================|==========|===|=============|
| | | | | | |
| 7 | 111 601 151 | WHEEL CAP | PRIMED | | |
| | | F > 210 2300 000 | | 4 | 211-216 |
| | | | | | 231-235 |
| | | | | | 261-268 |
| (7) | 113 601 151 | WHEEL CAP | CHROME | | |
| | | F > 210 2300 000 | | 4 | 221-228 |
| | | | | | 241,244 |
| | | | | | 271,274 |
| 8 | 251 601 151 | WHEEL CAP | PRIMED | | |
| | | | 256MM | | |
| | | F 211 20000 001> | | 4 | 211-216 |
| | | | | | 231-235 |
| | | | | | 261-268 |
| | | F 211 20000 001> 218 2300 000 | | 4 | 211,231 |
| | | | | | [CAN] |
| (8) | 251 601 151 A | WHEEL CAP | CHROME | | |
| | | | 256MM | | |
| | | F 211 20000 001> | | 4 | 221-228 |
| | | | | | 241,244 |
| | | | | | 271,274 |
| | | F 219 20000 001> | | 4 | 211,231 |
| | | | | | [CAN] |
| | | F > 210 2300 000 | | 5 | |
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Chrome, primed, painted
- Were the NOS black and silver grey hubcaps given a specific part number different than the "primed" and "chrome" caps?
- My bus has actually got green-painted hubcaps, which I suspect were done by a previous owner. Out of curiosity, was it possible to get painted hubcaps on a given color from the factory?
Tcash wrote: |
Note: 311 601 151 D came out of the 1968-72 parts manual and is described as being used from chasis number 211 2000 001. Which is the first T2 off the line in 1971. The first three digits of the part number specify the model, which in this case is 311 = Fastback.
So if the parts manual is correct the Type 3 hub caps where availible in 1971? |
I'm not sure I quite understand the question: do you mean whether they were still available in '71?
In any case, # 311 601 151 D appears on the Type 3 Parts Book as available "from Ch. No. 3T6 000 001"
Tcash wrote: |
Thanks again for posting |
You're most welcome!
Last edited by furgo on Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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chimneyfish Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 881 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:10 am Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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For your research here is a link to the thread on the official VWoA aftermarket accessory hubcaps (number 5 in the first image below), manufactured for VWoA by DEL-MET.
The 'correct' ones for a bay were the white ones that came out circa 78-79, whereas the chrome ones apparently came out at the start of the Vanagon era. Number 6 in the second image below are inspired by the 'SA Rostyle' design.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3023544
_________________ 1965 Type 1 Deluxe (1200cc)
1976 Type 2 T2b Microbus L (1800cc Type 4)
Previously...
1972 T2 Camper (Devon), 1988 Golf, 1972 Type 1, 1984 Polo, 1972 T2 Camper (Danbury)
Last edited by chimneyfish on Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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furgo Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016 Posts: 944 Location: Southern Germany
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:15 am Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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chimneyfish wrote: |
For your research here is a link to the thread on the official aftermarket VWoA aftermarket accessory hubcaps (number 5 in the first image below), manufactured for VWoA by DEL-MET. |
Excellent, thanks!
Also, would anyone know which year these Late Bay parts microfiches were published? It might help with the question of when the "T3" fatter hubcaps were introduced. |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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I did not catch that. Made the correction.
Anyone know of a post noting the parts manual corrections?
These may need correcting.
8 | 251 601 151
F 211 20000 001> 210 2300 000 | | 4 | 211,231
F 211 20000 001> 218 2300 000 | | 4 | 211,231
(8 | 251 601 151 A
F 211 20000 001> | | 4 | 211,231
F 219 20000 001> | | 4 | 211,231
- Where the NOS black and silver grey hubcaps given a specific part number
Looks like it is the 251 601 151 number. Notice on the tag though it has (LO 331)(Nature 1), I cannot find it, best quess is "LO 331" is the paint code and "Nature" means primer?
- My bus has actually got green-painted hubcaps, which I suspect were done by a previous owner. Out of curiosity, was it possible to get painted hubcaps on a given color from the factory?
Maybe the dealer, I would not think the factory would do it.
With the introduction of the T3 in 1979 the flat hubcaps were slightly redesigned to give them a higher outer rim. Some experts say these hubcaps were introduced earlier than '79, but there seem to be no sources to confirm.
Part number 311 601 151 D is in the 1968-72 parts manual.
311 = Fastback
So if you can believe the parts manual the Type 3 hub caps where available in 1971.
Tcash wrote: |
So if the parts manual is correct the Type 3 hub caps where availible in 1971? |
I was questioning if the parts manual is correct. If it is correct the T3 Hub Cap came out in 1971.
Also, would anyone know which year these Late Bay parts Microfiche's were published? It might help with the question of when the "T3" fatter hubcaps where introduced.
I do not see the 311 601 151 D, T3 part number in the Late Bay parts Microfiche's. So I do not understand how it is going to help you determine when the T3 fatter hubcaps where introduced?
This Fiche covers 68-79 so at least 1979.
papawhisky wrote: "Looks like the fiche stop around 88 or 89"
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332242
The |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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These where advertised as T2 Hub Caps. I have never seen them. May be aftermarket.
Tcash |
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mark d Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2013 Posts: 219 Location: Costa Rica
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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thks _________________ 1972ish westfalia
"what good are tractors without violins ?" jose figueres |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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I would still like to know when the Script changed. The brochure pictures that I could find show the Top right Script.
1.Top left --------------------- 2.Top right
This is advertised as a NOS standard beetle / commercial bus hubcap. Note the script looks the same as #1. But the font (letters) appears to be bigger than #1.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1871899
3.
Thanks
Tcash |
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furgo Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2016 Posts: 944 Location: Southern Germany
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:41 am Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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Tcash wrote: |
I did not catch that. Made the correction.
[...]
These may need correcting.
8 | 251 601 151
F 211 20000 001> 210 2300 000 | | 4 | 211,231
F 211 20000 001> 218 2300 000 | | 4 | 211,231
(8 | 251 601 151 A
F 211 20000 001> | | 4 | 211,231
F 219 20000 001> | | 4 | 211,231 |
Corrected it in my post, thanks!
Tcash wrote: |
I was questioning if the parts manual is correct. If it is correct the T3 Hub Cap came out in 1971.
Also, would anyone know which year these Late Bay parts Microfiche's were published? It might help with the question of when the "T3" fatter hubcaps where introduced.
I do not see the 311 601 151 D, T3 part number in the Late Bay parts Microfiche's. So I do not understand how it is going to help you determine when the T3 fatter hubcaps where introduced?
This Fiche covers 68-79 so at least 1979.
|
Ah, gotcha. You've answered my question already, as initially I hadn't realized that the parts microfiches went until '79. In any case, when I mentioned "T3" fatter hubcaps, I meant the "T3" (Vanagon) part number -> 251 601 151, not the Type 3 one -> 311 601 151 D.
What confuses me a bit from the parts manuals is that it seems both types of flat hubcaps seem to have been introduced from chassis number 211 2 000 001 (1971) onwards. However the fat ones have got a Vanagon part number (251*), and in '71 the Vanagon didn't exist yet.
I think that was simply a case of me misreading the "Chassis #" column as the date when the part was introduced, when instead it simply indicates compatibility. So, it might have been the case that #251 601 151 was introduced in '79-'80 and then the microfiches were updated. Or it could have been introduced earlier too, but unless there is a source that can confirm it, we probably won't know it for certain. |
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Hikelite Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2012 Posts: 557 Location: Colville, WA
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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Great write up. Thanks for confirming mine are original _________________ ~Kevin
My 1968 Campmobile |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Guide to VW T2 hubcap types and sizes |
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According to this post the 311 601 151 D started production 1968.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=84526&page=3
[qoute]Dyno[/quote]
They went to the conventional 4 stud cap 311601151D as we know them in 1968.
So the question remains.
When did VW start production on the 251 601 151/151A ?
If the Vanagon folk's don't know. You might try asking the Type 3 group.
Tcash |
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