| How much would you pay for a new Syncro transaxle? |
| A) under $5000 |
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32% |
[ 42 ] |
| B) $5000 - $8000 |
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32% |
[ 42 ] |
| C) $8000- $10,000 |
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17% |
[ 23 ] |
| D) $10,000 - $15,000 |
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8% |
[ 11 ] |
| E) Whatever it takes! |
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9% |
[ 12 ] |
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| Total Votes : 130 |
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| Author |
Message |
Syncro Jael
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2013
Posts: 2204
Location: Utah
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 Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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I will be on the purchase list once all these parts are available. I am saving money for all of it.
Now we just need some high end bearings to install with all these parts.
It is great to see some progress that will keep our Syncros on the road for a long time!
Thanks Gears!!
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat) |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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| gears wrote: |
Here's a pic of the SA intermediate housing. See the difference in material voids?
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Oh! I never noticed that! I guess the one sold by VW classic parts is not the same as the SA model then.
I had posted pics stolen from Mike Ghia's thread before, he's the one who found these at VW Classic Parts. I'm wondering if it ever made it in a transmission from the assembly line or if it is purely a replacement part.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:48 pm Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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.
Slowly coming along, but it will be very nice when completed ..
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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dbartisan
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Aliso Viejo CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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That sure is beautiful!
-Steve C. |
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Pcforno
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 575
Location: Santa Fe, nm
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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| Sexy!!!! |
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jimf909 
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 7475
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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Fancy!
I’m so glad you posted that and didn’t use the word billet in the post. Why don’t folks just say “machined from a chunk of aluminum”?
What’s the brownish colored disk like object in the pic?
_________________
- Jim
| Abscate wrote: |
Do not get killed, do not kill others.
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Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:14 am Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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| jimf909 wrote: |
Fancy!
I’m so glad you posted that and didn’t use the word billet in the post. Why don’t folks just say “machined from a chunk of aluminum”?
What’s the brownish colored disk like object in the pic? |
 perspective ! It's the hole for the main shaft bearing it looks like
Nice chunk-o-metal Paul 
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:47 am Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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Our buddy Joe Cariss is making these, along with some other Vanagon goodies that we'll keep Samba apprised of. It's slow going because we want to get every added feature correct the first time. This housing should be ready right about the time our oil-drilled mainshafts are ready.
(Alika, only the mainshaft bearing bore is cut right now.)
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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| Quote: |
I’m so glad you posted that and didn’t use the word billet in the post. Why don’t folks just say “machined from a chunk of aluminum”?
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Echoing my own snark over the years. As a promotional term "billet" has always been totally silly.
Must be an optical delusion, the thru-hole looks like it has zero depth (which is of course impossible).
Watching this with interest!
_________________
Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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Lol .. I don't know why hate of the term "billet", but I'm glad I didn't use it.
Here's Joe's "chunk" housing, with an arrow to show where the reflection begins. As you can see, it's still "fat" on the backside .. lots of carving yet to do.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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tencentlife
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 10078
Location: Abiquiu, NM, USA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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Ohhh, now I can see it! That's weird.
Not so much hate on "billet", it's just silly. Silly billet. Got a billet? Mill it!
_________________
Shop for unique Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
Please don't PM here, I will not reply.
Experience is kryptonite to doctrine. |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9618
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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| tencentlife wrote: |
| Echoing my own snark over the years. As a promotional term "billet" has always been totally silly. |
I've seen silliness in promotions, but you can't call billet "totally silly". Billet is a reasonable descriptor to differentiate between 3 common types of aluminum construction.
- Cast
- Machined from a block (called Billet, or CNC)
or - Forged.
Cast is the weakest, Forged is the strongest. Billet is in the middle, and generally considered to be a "strong" construction therefore it's a feature that only a fool marketer could forget to mention. I can see how it might be "over-used". OEMs use castings, because casting is fantastically cheaper in large qtys.
Smaller operations or aftermarket manufacturers use billet because it's reasonable to produce small manufacturing lots, but slower, and much higher cost per part. Billet/CNC allows for changes easily. The OEM can't make changes to a $100,000 mold that squirts out 20 castings for every cycle. Billet is also much stronger, so the aftermarket mfrs are --- OF COURSE ---- going to mention the word "BILLET" to justify the higher mfr cost, AND the higher end-price, and it will seem 'over-used' ---- but it's good information.
Anyway, with regards to 'gears' intermediate housing...... It's Billet, obviously, and MUCH stronger than a cast housing (if same thickness etc). If these got popular the design would be changed over to cast (but prob thicker than OEM). Anyway I agree that hearing folks say "ooooooo it that billet? wow!" like you might hear someone say about a $2500 Versace purse in the window,,, can tire you of hearing the work "billet", but it's a good word, it has a specific meaning and carries useful information.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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^^ What he said ;^)
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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It needs more speed holes
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9618
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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| Sodo wrote: |
| If these got popular the design would be changed over to cast (but prob thicker than OEM) |
because
| Sodo wrote: |
| Tom Lengyel said (referring to 'gears') "He wants to make it strong enough to dump the clutch", to which gears replied without hesitation, "No I want to romp on 2nd gear, or 3rd whenever I feel like it". But gears had just been regaling us with stories of dumping 440HP thru a beetle trans at 7,000 rpm.... |
..........................  .........
It's this attitude that may result in a transaxle capable of withstanding a "normal person's 150 HP camper." I'm looking forward to it! And perhaps a lead-foot's 180HP camper. The intermediate housing is clearly the easier item to CNC (billet ) but the (new) main transmission case will probably start as a sand-cast.
The 091 094 components are too small (IMHO) but if a stronger case holds them in their proper positions, that's one part of the problem "reduced". Using the "design example" of of aircraft turbine transmissions, increasing the size of the gears and shafts was not possible due to the weight penalty, so they increased the strength of the parts and added proper oiling, and oil cooling, which is not new technology. Member PCForno located some great technical papers from 1966 which we used in formulating the "opinion" that "squirting/cooling the 4th gear mesh area" is perhaps the best current (and somewhat do-able) solution to over-engining this gearbox. If a new case could accommodate bigger bearings that will help too.
Keep in mind the low-gear housing needs help too. Just bump-starting a Syncro in reverse can blow the reverse gear idler out the side of the low gear housing. Every Syncro owner should know this. NEVER bumpstart a Syncro in reverse. Maybe with an old worn out WBX and a soft clutch....but no big engines. Its a big risk, prob better not do it (actually this is a good rule for ALL reverse gears, they are often made for "parking etc"). If any housing is beefed up, they should ALL be beefed up or someone, someday is gonna bust the weak housing.
A stronger transaxle that simply fits in every Vanagon without modification to the transaxle mounts, is ideal. But it HAS to be costly.  Keep in mind a bigger trans from a modern vehicle, creates a dependence on THAT trans too, and what if parts dry up? Prob what's gonna happen is aftermarket elecric kits will focus on the vanagon and other classic vehicles. And perhaps wheel-mounted drive motors for the front.
| Quote: |
| Zeitgeist 13]It needs more speed holes |
I bet he'll ream it a new bunghole on the drivers side.....
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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photogdave
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2004
Posts: 3053
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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| Sodo wrote: |
| Prob what's gonna happen is aftermarket elecric kits will focus on the vanagon and other classic vehicles. And perhaps wheel-mounted drive motors for the front. |
This is what will eventually save us all. That electric Baja Bug at MogFest was a real eye-opener.
There will likely be a point where an electric conversion kit will be about the same cost as a new custom transaxle.
_________________
89 Syncro GL Westfalia 2.1 WBX/WBXaustSS
My Westy Movies:
photogdave On Vimeo
photogdave On YouTube
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3431
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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| Sodo wrote: |
Cast is the weakest, Forged is the strongest. Billet is in the middle, . |
Basically yes, but the material grade has equal, or more, influence on the strength. But with the grades "typically" used for each of these processes, the order is correct.
I toured a very large shop (New England) that makes everything out of billet aluminum, typically on machining centers, but they have various cutters (water jets, etc) for huge plates. All the chips are packed into hockey size pucks and recycled. Since they know the exact grade of these chips, they get more money than typical scrap aluminum. This reduces the overall material cost.
Some materials, or size billets were only available from places such as Russia. I believe they had two of these "puck" machines at 1/2 million plus. That will give you some idea of the scope of the shop.
Anyways, the point of this ramble is- if someone is interested in higher volume that "might" be economical at such an automated place, pm me, and I will find my contact information.
_________________
John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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The next major part Joe will make (after the intermediate housing) is a Low Gear housing, carved from solid 6061 aluminum billet. Just in time too, as we're running out of stock low gear housings.
While this billet housing will be far stronger than the stock unit, it still won't be capable of defying physics.
The compound low feature of the syncro transaxle tolerates torque in one direction only. The same principles that allow a TBD (which is essentially a fancy open diff) to provide lock-up when power is applied on acceleration (while freewheeling during deceleration), preclude the syncro transaxle from being aggressively overdriven by the compound low.
Aggressively includes bump starting in G or R gears.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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Pcforno
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 575
Location: Santa Fe, nm
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:28 am Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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| Gears - out of curiosity - will there be a bearing retainer on the intermediate housing with the corresponding cutout on the low gear housing for it to fit, or were you planning on having the new stronger low gear housing still retain the MS bearing? the former would seem to be preferable to avoid the spacing issue with a gasket or sealant product |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Brand new custom Syncro transaxle |
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A chromoly bearing retainer will most definitely be part of the package. Once these housings are completed, I'll be able to point out all the subtle design changes, the reasoning behind them, and give credit to those who have contributed to our joint effort.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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