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Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data?
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crofty
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

Lind wrote:
Also, there is a huge difference between deluxe and deluxe sunroof buses.


and Westy and OTW.

The other problem is that a lot of buses trade hands offline.
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otherbeach
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

Showing USA splits price trend by Model. I understand this is hard to read, but there is a legend.
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otherbeach
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

crofty wrote:
Lind wrote:
Also, there is a huge difference between deluxe and deluxe sunroof buses.


and Westy and OTW.

The other problem is that a lot of buses trade hands offline.


Fair enough and there is a noted difference between Westys and non-Westys available in my data.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I also found a difference in Deluxe with Sunroof and Deluxe.
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Although lots of buses do change hands independently, 30,000 for sale Split bus adverts since 2003 does tell a story.
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EverettB Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

otherbeach wrote:
Showing USA splits price trend by Model. I understand this is hard to read, but there is a legend.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Panels vs. Kombis is weird - It must have been a lot of customized and high dollar Panels for a while.
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RockStock
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

EB, I think you may be mistaking Specials for Kombis?
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otherbeach
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

RockStock wrote:
EB, I think you may be mistaking Specials for Kombis?


My fault...hope this graph is better and here is the data.
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easy e
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

otherbeach wrote:
I keep saying "peak bus"...are we past it?
The 50 and 200 day moving average (or whatever) doesn't look too hot. But, "peak bus" lends to thinking about production... and I think were really wanting to know price trend.
I suspect it's just a correction... because buses are still looked upon with desire and still (sorta) keeping up with traffic.
(They aren't like Model T's, yet)
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

RockStock wrote:
EB, I think you may be mistaking Specials for Kombis?

You are right, the colors were very similar and I didn't look close enough
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otherbeach
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

easy e wrote:
otherbeach wrote:
I keep saying "peak bus"...are we past it?
The 50 and 200 day moving average (or whatever) doesn't look too hot. But, "peak bus" lends to thinking about production... and I think were really wanting to know price trend.
I suspect it's just a correction... because buses are still looked upon with desire and still (sorta) keeping up with traffic.
(They aren't like Model T's, yet)


I agree "peak oil" like "peak bus" would mean production, but I think I am using in colloquially in reference to prices.

You make an interesting point about Model T's. No we are nowhere near that, but the history of popularity in the automobile hobby is interesting. As usual, thanks for your support in my project.
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otherbeach
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

OG Paint? Patina?
Where reported in the description of these 29000 sold Split adverts, I flagged those adverts that used the term "patina" or "OG" (and case variations of these). The results are below. I did a further analysis and got these T-test results showing that this term only mattered (possibly) on Panels.

OG or Patina=Y in this table.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Underlying statistics.

Code:


----------------------------------------------------------- Model=Camper -----------------------------------------------------------

                                                        The TTEST Procedure
 
                                                        Variable:  askprice

                          Paint             N        Mean     Std Dev     Std Err     Minimum     Maximum

                          N              2868     11518.1     11721.9       218.9       500.0      130000
                          Y                56     13492.9     10029.3      1340.2      1100.0     55000.0
                          Diff (1-2)              -1974.8     11692.3      1577.6                       

                   Paint         Method               Mean       95% CL Mean        Std Dev      95% CL Std Dev

                   N                               11518.1     11088.9  11947.3     11721.9     11426.2  12033.4
                   Y                               13492.9     10807.0  16178.7     10029.3      8455.5  12328.6
                   Diff (1-2)    Pooled            -1974.8     -5068.2   1118.6     11692.3     11400.1  12000.0
                   Diff (1-2)    Satterthwaite     -1974.8     -4693.1    743.5                                 

                                    Method           Variances        DF    t Value    Pr > |t|

                                    Pooled           Equal          2922      -1.25      0.2108
                                    Satterthwaite    Unequal      57.972      -1.45      0.1513

                                                       Equality of Variances
 
                                         Method      Num DF    Den DF    F Value    Pr > F

                                         Folded F      2867        55       1.37    0.1391

----------------------------------------------------------- Model=Deluxe -----------------------------------------------------------

                                                        The TTEST Procedure
 
                                                        Variable:  askprice

                          Paint             N        Mean     Std Dev     Std Err     Minimum     Maximum

                          N              2375     19096.2     22809.1       468.0       500.0      179950
                          Y                59     19919.4     20833.0      2712.2       900.0      115000
                          Diff (1-2)               -823.2     22764.0      3000.2                       

                   Paint         Method               Mean       95% CL Mean        Std Dev      95% CL Std Dev

                   N                               19096.2     18178.4  20014.0     22809.1     22178.4  23477.0
                   Y                               19919.4     14490.3  25348.5     20833.0     17635.9  25457.0
                   Diff (1-2)    Pooled             -823.2     -6706.4   5060.0     22764.0     22141.9  23422.3
                   Diff (1-2)    Satterthwaite      -823.2     -6325.9   4679.5                                 

                                    Method           Variances        DF    t Value    Pr > |t|

                                    Pooled           Equal          2432      -0.27      0.7838
                                    Satterthwaite    Unequal      61.504      -0.30      0.7659

                                                       Equality of Variances
 
                                         Method      Num DF    Den DF    F Value    Pr > F

                                         Folded F      2374        58       1.20    0.3807
 
 --------------------------------------------------------- Model=Double Cab ---------------------------------------------------------

                                                        The TTEST Procedure
 
                                                        Variable:  askprice

                          Paint             N        Mean     Std Dev     Std Err     Minimum     Maximum

                          N              1304     17162.5     16154.2       447.3       500.0      198000
                          Y                14     16456.8     12092.7      3231.9      3500.0     39500.0
                          Diff (1-2)                705.7     16119.0      4331.1                       

                   Paint         Method               Mean       95% CL Mean        Std Dev      95% CL Std Dev

                   N                               17162.5     16284.9  18040.1     16154.2     15557.1  16799.2
                   Y                               16456.8      9474.7  23438.9     12092.7      8766.7  19481.9
                   Diff (1-2)    Pooled              705.7     -7790.8   9202.3     16119.0     15526.1  16759.4
                   Diff (1-2)    Satterthwaite       705.7     -6316.4   7727.8                                 

                                    Method           Variances        DF    t Value    Pr > |t|

                                    Pooled           Equal          1316       0.16      0.8706
                                    Satterthwaite    Unequal      13.503       0.22      0.8320

                                                       Equality of Variances
 
                                         Method      Num DF    Den DF    F Value    Pr > F

                                         Folded F      1303        13       1.78    0.2274
 
----------------------------------------------------------- Model=Kombi ------------------------------------------------------------

                                                        The TTEST Procedure
 
                                                        Variable:  askprice

                          Paint             N        Mean     Std Dev     Std Err     Minimum     Maximum

                          N              1244     10120.5     11926.3       338.1       500.0     98000.0
                          Y                64      9814.1     13031.1      1628.9       700.0     69950.0
                          Diff (1-2)                306.4     11982.0      1535.8                       

                   Paint         Method               Mean       95% CL Mean        Std Dev      95% CL Std Dev

                   N                               10120.5      9457.1  10783.8     11926.3     11475.4  12414.4
                   Y                                9814.1      6559.0  13069.1     13031.1     11099.9  15782.3
                   Diff (1-2)    Pooled              306.4     -2706.5   3319.3     11982.0     11539.6  12459.9
                   Diff (1-2)    Satterthwaite       306.4     -3012.8   3625.6                                 

                                    Method           Variances        DF    t Value    Pr > |t|

                                    Pooled           Equal          1306       0.20      0.8419
                                    Satterthwaite    Unequal       68.54       0.18      0.8544

                                                       Equality of Variances
 
                                         Method      Num DF    Den DF    F Value    Pr > F

                                         Folded F        63      1243       1.19    0.2935
 
----------------------------------------------------------- Model=Panel ------------------------------------------------------------

                                                        The TTEST Procedure
 
                                                        Variable:  askprice

                          Paint             N        Mean     Std Dev     Std Err     Minimum     Maximum

                          N              2067      8339.9      8810.3       193.8       500.0      100000
                          Y                60     12366.2     19728.9      2547.0       700.0      150000
                          Diff (1-2)              -4026.3      9288.3      1216.4                       

                   Paint         Method               Mean       95% CL Mean        Std Dev      95% CL Std Dev

                   N                                8339.9      7959.8   8719.9      8810.3      8549.7   9087.4
                   Y                               12366.2      7269.7  17462.7     19728.9     16722.9  24062.6
                   Diff (1-2)    Pooled            -4026.3     -6411.8  -1640.9      9288.3      9017.3   9576.3
                   Diff (1-2)    Satterthwaite     -4026.3     -9136.3   1083.7                                 

                                    Method           Variances        DF    t Value    Pr > |t|

                                    Pooled           Equal          2125      -3.31      0.0009
                                    Satterthwaite    Unequal      59.685      -1.58      0.1203

                                                       Equality of Variances
 
                                         Method      Num DF    Den DF    F Value    Pr > F

                                         Folded F        59      2066       5.01    <.0001
 
--------------------------------------------------------- Model=Single Cab ---------------------------------------------------------

                                                        The TTEST Procedure
 
                                                        Variable:  askprice

                          Paint             N        Mean     Std Dev     Std Err     Minimum     Maximum

                          N              2548      9386.9      8951.7       177.3       500.0      131000
                          Y                57     10529.7      7014.0       929.0      1700.0     28500.0
                          Diff (1-2)              -1142.8      8914.4      1193.9                       

                   Paint         Method               Mean       95% CL Mean        Std Dev      95% CL Std Dev

                   N                                9386.9      9039.1   9734.6      8951.7      8712.5   9204.5
                   Y                               10529.7      8668.6  12390.8      7014.0      5921.6   8604.4
                   Diff (1-2)    Pooled            -1142.8     -3483.9   1198.2      8914.4      8678.7   9163.4
                   Diff (1-2)    Satterthwaite     -1142.8     -3034.6    748.9                                 

                                    Method           Variances        DF    t Value    Pr > |t|

                                    Pooled           Equal          2603      -0.96      0.3385
                                    Satterthwaite    Unequal      60.154      -1.21      0.2317

                                                       Equality of Variances
 
                                         Method      Num DF    Den DF    F Value    Pr > F

                                         Folded F      2547        56       1.63    0.0212

---------------------------------------------------------- Model=Special -----------------------------------------------------------

                                                        The TTEST Procedure
 
                                                        Variable:  askprice

                           Paint           N        Mean     Std Dev     Std Err     Minimum     Maximum

                           N              28      8432.1      7687.2      1452.8      1800.0     40000.0
                           Y               1      7000.0           .           .      7000.0      7000.0
                           Diff (1-2)             1432.1      7687.2      7823.3                       

                   Paint         Method               Mean       95% CL Mean        Std Dev      95% CL Std Dev

                   N                                8432.1      5451.3  11412.9      7687.2      6077.7  10463.4
                   Y                                7000.0           .        .           .           .        .
                   Diff (1-2)    Pooled             1432.1    -14620.0  17484.2      7687.2      6077.7  10463.4
                   Diff (1-2)    Satterthwaite      1432.1           .        .                                 

                                    Method           Variances        DF    t Value    Pr > |t|

                                    Pooled           Equal            27       0.18      0.8561
                                    Satterthwaite    Unequal           .        .         .   

                                                       Equality of Variances
 
                                         Method      Num DF    Den DF    F Value    Pr > F

                                         Folded F        27         0        .       .   
 
 ---------------------------------------------------------- Model=Standard ----------------------------------------------------------

                                                        The TTEST Procedure
 
                                                        Variable:  askprice

                          Paint             N        Mean     Std Dev     Std Err     Minimum     Maximum

                          N              1015     13111.5     19670.3       617.4       500.0      189000
                          Y                45     11098.9      9999.4      1490.6      1500.0     45000.0
                          Diff (1-2)               2012.6     19364.6      2950.0                       

                   Paint         Method               Mean       95% CL Mean        Std Dev      95% CL Std Dev

                   N                               13111.5     11899.9  14323.1     19670.3     18850.2  20565.5
                   Y                               11098.9      8094.7  14103.0      9999.4      8278.0  12631.2
                   Diff (1-2)    Pooled             2012.6     -3775.9   7801.1     19364.6     18573.5  20226.5
                   Diff (1-2)    Satterthwaite      2012.6     -1214.4   5239.6                                 

                                    Method           Variances        DF    t Value    Pr > |t|

                                    Pooled           Equal          1058       0.68      0.4952
                                    Satterthwaite    Unequal      60.315       1.25      0.2171

                                                       Equality of Variances
 
                                         Method      Num DF    Den DF    F Value    Pr > F

                                         Folded F      1014        44       3.87    <.0001
 
                   
---------------------------------------------------------- Model=Unknown -----------------------------------------------------------

                                                        The TTEST Procedure
 
                                                        Variable:  askprice

                          Paint             N        Mean     Std Dev     Std Err     Minimum     Maximum

                          N              7105     13200.9     17517.2       207.8       500.0      199000
                          Y               195     13760.6     14642.7      1048.6       650.0      100000
                          Diff (1-2)               -559.7     17446.9      1266.4                       

                   Paint         Method               Mean       95% CL Mean        Std Dev      95% CL Std Dev

                   N                               13200.9     12793.5  13608.3     17517.2     17233.9  17810.1
                   Y                               13760.6     11692.5  15828.6     14642.7     13319.4  16260.3
                   Diff (1-2)    Pooled             -559.7     -3042.2   1922.9     17446.9     17168.5  17734.7
                   Diff (1-2)    Satterthwaite      -559.7     -2667.0   1547.7                                 

                                    Method           Variances        DF    t Value    Pr > |t|

                                    Pooled           Equal          7298      -0.44      0.6586
                                    Satterthwaite    Unequal      209.53      -0.52      0.6012

                                                       Equality of Variances
 
                                         Method      Num DF    Den DF    F Value    Pr > F

                                         Folded F      7104       194       1.43    0.0011
 
 
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easy e
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

OG is too broad (patina probably is too).

OG radio
OG hubcaps
OG fart smell
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

easy e wrote:
OG is too broad (patina probably is too).

OG radio
OG hubcaps
OG fart smell

He's probably ok here because he's only looking at Vehicle ads and only at the ad title.

There is probably still a little margin of error but I would guess it's minimal
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easy e
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

Ah, title specific would make a big difference.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
easy e wrote:
OG is too broad (patina probably is too).

OG radio
OG hubcaps
OG fart smell

He's probably ok here because he's only looking at Vehicle ads and only at the ad title.

There is probably still a little margin of error but I would guess it's minimal

Thanks "EB" for helping me with the data. I am rather limited about what I know...just what was in the Sold description. I got, but excluded "Vehicle Wanted" adverts. The presence of "OG" or "original" seems to be statistically insignificant in determining sold price. (except maybe for Panels)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The picture here is a little misleading. OG implies Original Paint, but I just "flag" it as "OG" and analyze on that "flag".
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

For historic and comparison purposes, note the classified adverts from "Hot VWs" magazine (provided under "Fair Use" of Copyright Law).

Here is a 1993 advert from "Hot VWs" for a Camper.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

For Campers
Mean price in 2003 was $3830 in TheSamba sold adverts.
Mean price in 2013 was $14647 in TheSamba sold adverts.
Mean price in 2018 was $17984 in TheSamba sold adverts.
As I have stated in earlier posts, Campers in particular have held up well even after the recent price softness. You can see other information in this thread regarding Westys vs. non-Westys.


Here is a 1993 advert from "Hot VWs" for a 23-Window
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Mean price in 2004 was $21609 in TheSamba sold adverts.
Mean price in 2013 was $41112 in TheSamba sold adverts.
Mean price in 2018 was $81680 in TheSamba sold adverts.

Here is a 1993 advert from "Hot VWs" for a Barn Door Kombi
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Unfortunately in the history of TheSamba, where I can identify model as "Kombi" and Model Year as 1950-1954, there are only 27 ever sold (of some 29000 buses sold since data started in year 2003). These have an average sale price over all these years of $39215.
Here they are:
Code:

Bus advert description askprice AdvertDate Model Model Year
1953 Kombi . 17APR2004:22:06:12 Kombi 1953
1954 Barndoor Kombi 22000 31OCT2004:20:04:10 Kombi 1954
1954 Barndoor Kombi 2500 01FEB2005:14:56:47 Kombi 1954
54 Kombi - Sale/Trades 90000 01APR2005:17:51:34 Kombi 1954
1954 kombi 7500 23MAY2005:20:56:28 Kombi 1954
1954 kombi 11000 31JUL2007:23:44:54 Kombi 1954
1953 Barndoor Kombi . 06JAN2008:01:12:20 Kombi 1953
1954 kombi 11000 12JAN2008:05:37:31 Kombi 1954
1954 Barn Door Kombi Bus 10000 21OCT2008:19:56:59 Kombi 1954
1953 kombi barn door running and driving 10500 21FEB2009:03:53:06 Kombi 1953
1953 kombi w/rear hatch option 20000 23AUG2009:01:31:32 Kombi 1953
&quot;kombi&quot;Spit window $850 OBO . 29NOV2009:18:30:20 Kombi 1950
1953 Barndoor Kombi, Rear Hatch, Patina! . 09NOV2010:18:44:09 Kombi 1953
1954 Barndoor Kombi Exceptional Example! 67500 31JAN2011:03:11:18 Kombi 1954
1954 Barndoor Kombi, Behr Scoop, DRY! . 15FEB2011:18:48:43 Kombi 1954
1954 Barndoor Kombi, Beautiful, OG Engine! 69950 12MAR2011:00:01:27 Kombi 1954
1954 Barndoor Kombi Complete and Dry. Great driver 46500 02JUN2012:02:55:45 Kombi 1954
1954 Neue Barndoor Kombi, OG Logo Bus! 39000 03JUL2012:18:00:15 Kombi 1954
Very complete Rare 1952 kombi unrestored 3rd owner 65000 18SEP2012:21:32:14 Kombi 1952
1954 Barndoor Kombi, Nice &amp; Proper Bus! . 09JAN2013:22:51:59 Kombi 1954
1954 VW Barndoor Turbo Bus Kombi with Rear Hatch 80000 21APR2015:22:14:17 Kombi 1954
*1954 Barndoor kombi School bus* . 31JUL2015:22:57:13 Kombi 1954
1954 VW Barndoor Bus Kombi with Rear Hatch . 06AUG2015:23:04:48 Kombi 1954
1954 Barndoor Kombi, Original Paint, Cool Bus! . 22FEB2017:21:47:15 Kombi 1954
1953 Barndoor kombi Pending sale . 04MAY2017:05:36:18 Kombi 1953
1954 Right Hand Drive Barndoor Kombi 75000 14JUL2017:08:44:03 Kombi 1954
1954 Barndoor Kombi ( metal ) price cut more metal . 21AUG2017:22:58:01 Kombi 195
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otherbeach
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

Split buses vs. Beetles.
Collected thanks to EB over 56,000 (wow) TheSamba sold adverts of Beetles.
Compared price trend to that of Splits in same period.

I do have model breakdowns, but the graph is too messy.

Still analyzing comparison to BAYS, dont have data processed yet.
The question is: did air-cooled fans go to Beetles (or Bays) when Splits prices went up? That is what this particular analysis is about.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

otherbeach wrote:
Split buses vs. Beetles.
Collected thanks to EB over 56,000 (wow) TheSamba sold adverts of Beetles.
Compared price trend to that of Splits in same period.

I do have model breakdowns, but the graph is too messy.

Still analyzing comparison to BAYS, dont have data processed yet.
The question is: did air-cooled fans go to Beetles (or Bays) when Splits prices went up? That is what this particular analysis is about.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Looks like it is following the same trajectory.
Porsche 356/911/912 models are seeing a similar decline in value. Might have to do with Brexit and the pound suffering. The Brits were a big part of the recent market surge.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

Beetles and Bays now...
Compared price trend to that of Splits in same period.

I do have model breakdowns, but the graph is too messy.
56016 Beetles
29420 Splits
35639 Bays
Over 100,000 TheSamba SOLD records with personally identifiable info not captured

Interesting that Bays are holding the upward trend.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The question is: did air-cooled fans go to Beetles (or Bays) when Splits prices went up? That is what this particular analysis is about. Looks like...Yes?


I dont have Porsche or other model data at this time.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

My opinion:
I would definitely say the rising price of Split Buses has caused Bay Windows to rise as well.
More affordable and greater availability in many instances.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
My opinion:
I would definitely say the rising price of Split Buses has caused Bay Windows to rise as well.
More affordable and greater availability in many instances.


So are the rumors true that you sold your collection and bought a '78 deluxe?
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