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crofty Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000 Posts: 19672 Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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Lind wrote: |
Also, there is a huge difference between deluxe and deluxe sunroof buses. |
and Westy and OTW.
The other problem is that a lot of buses trade hands offline. _________________ Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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otherbeach Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2016 Posts: 281 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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Showing USA splits price trend by Model. I understand this is hard to read, but there is a legend.
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otherbeach Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2016 Posts: 281 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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crofty wrote: |
Lind wrote: |
Also, there is a huge difference between deluxe and deluxe sunroof buses. |
and Westy and OTW.
The other problem is that a lot of buses trade hands offline. |
Fair enough and there is a noted difference between Westys and non-Westys available in my data.
I also found a difference in Deluxe with Sunroof and Deluxe.
Although lots of buses do change hands independently, 30,000 for sale Split bus adverts since 2003 does tell a story. |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69820 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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otherbeach wrote: |
Showing USA splits price trend by Model. I understand this is hard to read, but there is a legend.
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Panels vs. Kombis is weird - It must have been a lot of customized and high dollar Panels for a while. _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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RockStock Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2004 Posts: 3929 Location: England
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:47 am Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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EB, I think you may be mistaking Specials for Kombis? _________________ -StockRocks- |
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otherbeach Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2016 Posts: 281 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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RockStock wrote: |
EB, I think you may be mistaking Specials for Kombis? |
My fault...hope this graph is better and here is the data.
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easy e Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 3931 Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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otherbeach wrote: |
I keep saying "peak bus"...are we past it? |
The 50 and 200 day moving average (or whatever) doesn't look too hot. But, "peak bus" lends to thinking about production... and I think were really wanting to know price trend.
I suspect it's just a correction... because buses are still looked upon with desire and still (sorta) keeping up with traffic.
(They aren't like Model T's, yet) _________________ aka: Evan
Spreadsheet for Bus RPM, based on gearing & tire size (Excel format)
Searchable, click-navigable 1958 Bus Parts List |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69820 Location: Phoenix Metro
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otherbeach Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2016 Posts: 281 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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easy e wrote: |
otherbeach wrote: |
I keep saying "peak bus"...are we past it? |
The 50 and 200 day moving average (or whatever) doesn't look too hot. But, "peak bus" lends to thinking about production... and I think were really wanting to know price trend.
I suspect it's just a correction... because buses are still looked upon with desire and still (sorta) keeping up with traffic.
(They aren't like Model T's, yet) |
I agree "peak oil" like "peak bus" would mean production, but I think I am using in colloquially in reference to prices.
You make an interesting point about Model T's. No we are nowhere near that, but the history of popularity in the automobile hobby is interesting. As usual, thanks for your support in my project. |
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otherbeach Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2016 Posts: 281 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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OG Paint? Patina?
Where reported in the description of these 29000 sold Split adverts, I flagged those adverts that used the term "patina" or "OG" (and case variations of these). The results are below. I did a further analysis and got these T-test results showing that this term only mattered (possibly) on Panels.
OG or Patina=Y in this table.
Underlying statistics.
Code: |
----------------------------------------------------------- Model=Camper -----------------------------------------------------------
The TTEST Procedure
Variable: askprice
Paint N Mean Std Dev Std Err Minimum Maximum
N 2868 11518.1 11721.9 218.9 500.0 130000
Y 56 13492.9 10029.3 1340.2 1100.0 55000.0
Diff (1-2) -1974.8 11692.3 1577.6
Paint Method Mean 95% CL Mean Std Dev 95% CL Std Dev
N 11518.1 11088.9 11947.3 11721.9 11426.2 12033.4
Y 13492.9 10807.0 16178.7 10029.3 8455.5 12328.6
Diff (1-2) Pooled -1974.8 -5068.2 1118.6 11692.3 11400.1 12000.0
Diff (1-2) Satterthwaite -1974.8 -4693.1 743.5
Method Variances DF t Value Pr > |t|
Pooled Equal 2922 -1.25 0.2108
Satterthwaite Unequal 57.972 -1.45 0.1513
Equality of Variances
Method Num DF Den DF F Value Pr > F
Folded F 2867 55 1.37 0.1391
----------------------------------------------------------- Model=Deluxe -----------------------------------------------------------
The TTEST Procedure
Variable: askprice
Paint N Mean Std Dev Std Err Minimum Maximum
N 2375 19096.2 22809.1 468.0 500.0 179950
Y 59 19919.4 20833.0 2712.2 900.0 115000
Diff (1-2) -823.2 22764.0 3000.2
Paint Method Mean 95% CL Mean Std Dev 95% CL Std Dev
N 19096.2 18178.4 20014.0 22809.1 22178.4 23477.0
Y 19919.4 14490.3 25348.5 20833.0 17635.9 25457.0
Diff (1-2) Pooled -823.2 -6706.4 5060.0 22764.0 22141.9 23422.3
Diff (1-2) Satterthwaite -823.2 -6325.9 4679.5
Method Variances DF t Value Pr > |t|
Pooled Equal 2432 -0.27 0.7838
Satterthwaite Unequal 61.504 -0.30 0.7659
Equality of Variances
Method Num DF Den DF F Value Pr > F
Folded F 2374 58 1.20 0.3807
--------------------------------------------------------- Model=Double Cab ---------------------------------------------------------
The TTEST Procedure
Variable: askprice
Paint N Mean Std Dev Std Err Minimum Maximum
N 1304 17162.5 16154.2 447.3 500.0 198000
Y 14 16456.8 12092.7 3231.9 3500.0 39500.0
Diff (1-2) 705.7 16119.0 4331.1
Paint Method Mean 95% CL Mean Std Dev 95% CL Std Dev
N 17162.5 16284.9 18040.1 16154.2 15557.1 16799.2
Y 16456.8 9474.7 23438.9 12092.7 8766.7 19481.9
Diff (1-2) Pooled 705.7 -7790.8 9202.3 16119.0 15526.1 16759.4
Diff (1-2) Satterthwaite 705.7 -6316.4 7727.8
Method Variances DF t Value Pr > |t|
Pooled Equal 1316 0.16 0.8706
Satterthwaite Unequal 13.503 0.22 0.8320
Equality of Variances
Method Num DF Den DF F Value Pr > F
Folded F 1303 13 1.78 0.2274
----------------------------------------------------------- Model=Kombi ------------------------------------------------------------
The TTEST Procedure
Variable: askprice
Paint N Mean Std Dev Std Err Minimum Maximum
N 1244 10120.5 11926.3 338.1 500.0 98000.0
Y 64 9814.1 13031.1 1628.9 700.0 69950.0
Diff (1-2) 306.4 11982.0 1535.8
Paint Method Mean 95% CL Mean Std Dev 95% CL Std Dev
N 10120.5 9457.1 10783.8 11926.3 11475.4 12414.4
Y 9814.1 6559.0 13069.1 13031.1 11099.9 15782.3
Diff (1-2) Pooled 306.4 -2706.5 3319.3 11982.0 11539.6 12459.9
Diff (1-2) Satterthwaite 306.4 -3012.8 3625.6
Method Variances DF t Value Pr > |t|
Pooled Equal 1306 0.20 0.8419
Satterthwaite Unequal 68.54 0.18 0.8544
Equality of Variances
Method Num DF Den DF F Value Pr > F
Folded F 63 1243 1.19 0.2935
----------------------------------------------------------- Model=Panel ------------------------------------------------------------
The TTEST Procedure
Variable: askprice
Paint N Mean Std Dev Std Err Minimum Maximum
N 2067 8339.9 8810.3 193.8 500.0 100000
Y 60 12366.2 19728.9 2547.0 700.0 150000
Diff (1-2) -4026.3 9288.3 1216.4
Paint Method Mean 95% CL Mean Std Dev 95% CL Std Dev
N 8339.9 7959.8 8719.9 8810.3 8549.7 9087.4
Y 12366.2 7269.7 17462.7 19728.9 16722.9 24062.6
Diff (1-2) Pooled -4026.3 -6411.8 -1640.9 9288.3 9017.3 9576.3
Diff (1-2) Satterthwaite -4026.3 -9136.3 1083.7
Method Variances DF t Value Pr > |t|
Pooled Equal 2125 -3.31 0.0009
Satterthwaite Unequal 59.685 -1.58 0.1203
Equality of Variances
Method Num DF Den DF F Value Pr > F
Folded F 59 2066 5.01 <.0001
--------------------------------------------------------- Model=Single Cab ---------------------------------------------------------
The TTEST Procedure
Variable: askprice
Paint N Mean Std Dev Std Err Minimum Maximum
N 2548 9386.9 8951.7 177.3 500.0 131000
Y 57 10529.7 7014.0 929.0 1700.0 28500.0
Diff (1-2) -1142.8 8914.4 1193.9
Paint Method Mean 95% CL Mean Std Dev 95% CL Std Dev
N 9386.9 9039.1 9734.6 8951.7 8712.5 9204.5
Y 10529.7 8668.6 12390.8 7014.0 5921.6 8604.4
Diff (1-2) Pooled -1142.8 -3483.9 1198.2 8914.4 8678.7 9163.4
Diff (1-2) Satterthwaite -1142.8 -3034.6 748.9
Method Variances DF t Value Pr > |t|
Pooled Equal 2603 -0.96 0.3385
Satterthwaite Unequal 60.154 -1.21 0.2317
Equality of Variances
Method Num DF Den DF F Value Pr > F
Folded F 2547 56 1.63 0.0212
---------------------------------------------------------- Model=Special -----------------------------------------------------------
The TTEST Procedure
Variable: askprice
Paint N Mean Std Dev Std Err Minimum Maximum
N 28 8432.1 7687.2 1452.8 1800.0 40000.0
Y 1 7000.0 . . 7000.0 7000.0
Diff (1-2) 1432.1 7687.2 7823.3
Paint Method Mean 95% CL Mean Std Dev 95% CL Std Dev
N 8432.1 5451.3 11412.9 7687.2 6077.7 10463.4
Y 7000.0 . . . . .
Diff (1-2) Pooled 1432.1 -14620.0 17484.2 7687.2 6077.7 10463.4
Diff (1-2) Satterthwaite 1432.1 . .
Method Variances DF t Value Pr > |t|
Pooled Equal 27 0.18 0.8561
Satterthwaite Unequal . . .
Equality of Variances
Method Num DF Den DF F Value Pr > F
Folded F 27 0 . .
---------------------------------------------------------- Model=Standard ----------------------------------------------------------
The TTEST Procedure
Variable: askprice
Paint N Mean Std Dev Std Err Minimum Maximum
N 1015 13111.5 19670.3 617.4 500.0 189000
Y 45 11098.9 9999.4 1490.6 1500.0 45000.0
Diff (1-2) 2012.6 19364.6 2950.0
Paint Method Mean 95% CL Mean Std Dev 95% CL Std Dev
N 13111.5 11899.9 14323.1 19670.3 18850.2 20565.5
Y 11098.9 8094.7 14103.0 9999.4 8278.0 12631.2
Diff (1-2) Pooled 2012.6 -3775.9 7801.1 19364.6 18573.5 20226.5
Diff (1-2) Satterthwaite 2012.6 -1214.4 5239.6
Method Variances DF t Value Pr > |t|
Pooled Equal 1058 0.68 0.4952
Satterthwaite Unequal 60.315 1.25 0.2171
Equality of Variances
Method Num DF Den DF F Value Pr > F
Folded F 1014 44 3.87 <.0001
---------------------------------------------------------- Model=Unknown -----------------------------------------------------------
The TTEST Procedure
Variable: askprice
Paint N Mean Std Dev Std Err Minimum Maximum
N 7105 13200.9 17517.2 207.8 500.0 199000
Y 195 13760.6 14642.7 1048.6 650.0 100000
Diff (1-2) -559.7 17446.9 1266.4
Paint Method Mean 95% CL Mean Std Dev 95% CL Std Dev
N 13200.9 12793.5 13608.3 17517.2 17233.9 17810.1
Y 13760.6 11692.5 15828.6 14642.7 13319.4 16260.3
Diff (1-2) Pooled -559.7 -3042.2 1922.9 17446.9 17168.5 17734.7
Diff (1-2) Satterthwaite -559.7 -2667.0 1547.7
Method Variances DF t Value Pr > |t|
Pooled Equal 7298 -0.44 0.6586
Satterthwaite Unequal 209.53 -0.52 0.6012
Equality of Variances
Method Num DF Den DF F Value Pr > F
Folded F 7104 194 1.43 0.0011
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easy e Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 3931 Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69820 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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easy e wrote: |
OG is too broad (patina probably is too).
OG radio
OG hubcaps
OG fart smell |
He's probably ok here because he's only looking at Vehicle ads and only at the ad title.
There is probably still a little margin of error but I would guess it's minimal _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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easy e Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 3931 Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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otherbeach Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2016 Posts: 281 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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EverettB wrote: |
easy e wrote: |
OG is too broad (patina probably is too).
OG radio
OG hubcaps
OG fart smell |
He's probably ok here because he's only looking at Vehicle ads and only at the ad title.
There is probably still a little margin of error but I would guess it's minimal |
Thanks "EB" for helping me with the data. I am rather limited about what I know...just what was in the Sold description. I got, but excluded "Vehicle Wanted" adverts. The presence of "OG" or "original" seems to be statistically insignificant in determining sold price. (except maybe for Panels)
The picture here is a little misleading. OG implies Original Paint, but I just "flag" it as "OG" and analyze on that "flag". |
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otherbeach Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2016 Posts: 281 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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For historic and comparison purposes, note the classified adverts from "Hot VWs" magazine (provided under "Fair Use" of Copyright Law).
Here is a 1993 advert from "Hot VWs" for a Camper.
For Campers
Mean price in 2003 was $3830 in TheSamba sold adverts.
Mean price in 2013 was $14647 in TheSamba sold adverts.
Mean price in 2018 was $17984 in TheSamba sold adverts.
As I have stated in earlier posts, Campers in particular have held up well even after the recent price softness. You can see other information in this thread regarding Westys vs. non-Westys.
Here is a 1993 advert from "Hot VWs" for a 23-Window
Mean price in 2004 was $21609 in TheSamba sold adverts.
Mean price in 2013 was $41112 in TheSamba sold adverts.
Mean price in 2018 was $81680 in TheSamba sold adverts.
Here is a 1993 advert from "Hot VWs" for a Barn Door Kombi
Unfortunately in the history of TheSamba, where I can identify model as "Kombi" and Model Year as 1950-1954, there are only 27 ever sold (of some 29000 buses sold since data started in year 2003). These have an average sale price over all these years of $39215.
Here they are:
Code: |
Bus advert description askprice AdvertDate Model Model Year
1953 Kombi . 17APR2004:22:06:12 Kombi 1953
1954 Barndoor Kombi 22000 31OCT2004:20:04:10 Kombi 1954
1954 Barndoor Kombi 2500 01FEB2005:14:56:47 Kombi 1954
54 Kombi - Sale/Trades 90000 01APR2005:17:51:34 Kombi 1954
1954 kombi 7500 23MAY2005:20:56:28 Kombi 1954
1954 kombi 11000 31JUL2007:23:44:54 Kombi 1954
1953 Barndoor Kombi . 06JAN2008:01:12:20 Kombi 1953
1954 kombi 11000 12JAN2008:05:37:31 Kombi 1954
1954 Barn Door Kombi Bus 10000 21OCT2008:19:56:59 Kombi 1954
1953 kombi barn door running and driving 10500 21FEB2009:03:53:06 Kombi 1953
1953 kombi w/rear hatch option 20000 23AUG2009:01:31:32 Kombi 1953
"kombi"Spit window $850 OBO . 29NOV2009:18:30:20 Kombi 1950
1953 Barndoor Kombi, Rear Hatch, Patina! . 09NOV2010:18:44:09 Kombi 1953
1954 Barndoor Kombi Exceptional Example! 67500 31JAN2011:03:11:18 Kombi 1954
1954 Barndoor Kombi, Behr Scoop, DRY! . 15FEB2011:18:48:43 Kombi 1954
1954 Barndoor Kombi, Beautiful, OG Engine! 69950 12MAR2011:00:01:27 Kombi 1954
1954 Barndoor Kombi Complete and Dry. Great driver 46500 02JUN2012:02:55:45 Kombi 1954
1954 Neue Barndoor Kombi, OG Logo Bus! 39000 03JUL2012:18:00:15 Kombi 1954
Very complete Rare 1952 kombi unrestored 3rd owner 65000 18SEP2012:21:32:14 Kombi 1952
1954 Barndoor Kombi, Nice & Proper Bus! . 09JAN2013:22:51:59 Kombi 1954
1954 VW Barndoor Turbo Bus Kombi with Rear Hatch 80000 21APR2015:22:14:17 Kombi 1954
*1954 Barndoor kombi School bus* . 31JUL2015:22:57:13 Kombi 1954
1954 VW Barndoor Bus Kombi with Rear Hatch . 06AUG2015:23:04:48 Kombi 1954
1954 Barndoor Kombi, Original Paint, Cool Bus! . 22FEB2017:21:47:15 Kombi 1954
1953 Barndoor kombi Pending sale . 04MAY2017:05:36:18 Kombi 1953
1954 Right Hand Drive Barndoor Kombi 75000 14JUL2017:08:44:03 Kombi 1954
1954 Barndoor Kombi ( metal ) price cut more metal . 21AUG2017:22:58:01 Kombi 195
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otherbeach Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2016 Posts: 281 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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Split buses vs. Beetles.
Collected thanks to EB over 56,000 (wow) TheSamba sold adverts of Beetles.
Compared price trend to that of Splits in same period.
I do have model breakdowns, but the graph is too messy.
Still analyzing comparison to BAYS, dont have data processed yet.
The question is: did air-cooled fans go to Beetles (or Bays) when Splits prices went up? That is what this particular analysis is about.
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Braukuche Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004 Posts: 11004
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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otherbeach wrote: |
Split buses vs. Beetles.
Collected thanks to EB over 56,000 (wow) TheSamba sold adverts of Beetles.
Compared price trend to that of Splits in same period.
I do have model breakdowns, but the graph is too messy.
Still analyzing comparison to BAYS, dont have data processed yet.
The question is: did air-cooled fans go to Beetles (or Bays) when Splits prices went up? That is what this particular analysis is about.
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Looks like it is following the same trajectory.
Porsche 356/911/912 models are seeing a similar decline in value. Might have to do with Brexit and the pound suffering. The Brits were a big part of the recent market surge. _________________ Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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otherbeach Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2016 Posts: 281 Location: Illinois
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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Beetles and Bays now...
Compared price trend to that of Splits in same period.
I do have model breakdowns, but the graph is too messy.
56016 Beetles
29420 Splits
35639 Bays
Over 100,000 TheSamba SOLD records with personally identifiable info not captured
Interesting that Bays are holding the upward trend.
The question is: did air-cooled fans go to Beetles (or Bays) when Splits prices went up? That is what this particular analysis is about. Looks like...Yes?
I dont have Porsche or other model data at this time. |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69820 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Braukuche Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004 Posts: 11004
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Has anyone collected price history or seasonal trends data? |
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EverettB wrote: |
My opinion:
I would definitely say the rising price of Split Buses has caused Bay Windows to rise as well.
More affordable and greater availability in many instances. |
So are the rumors true that you sold your collection and bought a '78 deluxe? _________________ Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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