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jakefromstatefarm Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2016 Posts: 46 Location: Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:51 pm Post subject: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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Hey folks!
A few months ago I decided I was finally going to get a VW van for family and camping adventures. I've wanted one since I was a kid and never really shook it. My wife gave me the thumbs up and I started doing some research. I was going around in circles about whether to get a Weekender Poptop or a MV hard top and then install a roof top tent on top. You can read about it here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=660464.
After thinking it through (and maybe obsessing about it) I decided to go the Weekender route. I found a great one and was ready to do the prepurchase inspection and proceed, but something made me stop. In a couple days I changed my mind and decided to just get a hardtop MV and an old beat up poptop and work with Cole from Cavevan on a conversion.
I had spoke quite a bit with Cole up to this point. He was really helpful in teaching me about the model differences and the pros and cons of doing a conversion project. He also was insanely helpful in teaching me what to look for in a donor and MV and why.
All that is to say is a week ago I bought two vans in three days. I bought
- a 2001 Eurovan MV that is fairly sound mechanically, but needs some cosmetic love. This will be the base vehicle the poptop will go onto.
- a 1993 Poptop in decent shape that just died out. We call this the donor van and will harvest the poptop and interior parts from it.
A week has passed and the cars are now with Cole at Cavevan. They arrived this morning - one from the east coast and one from the west coast. We're assessing the vehicles now - the good, the bad and the ugly - and I am starting to price out customizations and upgrades that will suit me.
I'll tell Cole about this thread and he can post pics and progress along the way. And I'll share my feedback and learnings and thoughts throughout as well.
Let the Eurovan adventure begin!
Jake |
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Xtremjeepn Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012 Posts: 1539 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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I'm excited for another cool van to build! Jake and I are still hashing out some of the details on what exactly to build for his family.
Here is what we are starting with. Both of these arrived on trucks on Friday. These two vans will become one van shortly
_________________ http://www.cavevan.com |
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Xtremjeepn Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012 Posts: 1539 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:21 am Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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The 1993 Westfalia actually looks pretty good from this angle. Its got a dead drivetrain, rust on the other side and some dents in the hatch and rear quarter. (The van behind it was nearly complete not long ago )
I did a quick inventory and it looks like its got all the right bits still in place to use as a donor for the poptop conversion.
The MV is a bit rough around the edges with some serious dings in the hatch and rockers and some interior bits laying around. But over all it drives really nice and most everything works.
After the test drive we put it in the shop to prep it for the swap. (As you can see I have lots of green vans laying around The one in the background isn't the donor )
_________________ http://www.cavevan.com |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:12 am Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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Cool project. It looks like you're acquiring quite a Sprinter collection, as well.
Can the left side under dash cubby panels from an early EV be installed on a late model? _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Xtremjeepn Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012 Posts: 1539 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:19 am Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Cool project. It looks like you're acquiring quite a Sprinter collection, as well.
Can the left side under dash cubby panels from an early EV be installed on a late model? |
Yes. There are also 3 Sprinters currently sitting here
The left dash cubby can *sorta* be installed. It you would still end up with a blank spot to the right of the steering wheel.
I did actually park Jake's new Eurovan next to Brian's short low roof Sprinter just for comparison. (Smallest Sprinter Available) This Sprinter sleeps zero, it's a passenger van! Brian the owner owned a Eurovan Westfalia for 303k miles before buying his Sprinter. He now helps me build vans.
_________________ http://www.cavevan.com |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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A friend just sold his Syncro and is in the process of converting his NCV3 highroof into a camper. He's owned it since new, but it previously was a service van for his electrician business. I'd love to get a hold of a T1N shorty lowtop, and then install a Reimo top and interior. Still, I think the EV is the perfect blend of urban kid hauler and family road tripper. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Joshwa Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2015 Posts: 810 Location: North Seattle WA
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Xtremjeepn Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012 Posts: 1539 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:29 am Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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Joshwa wrote: |
I hate that I see this far too much. These vans just don't do well being put up on a lift from the normal jack points. Shouldn't they be lifted from the frame just in from the normal forward jack point? I'm going to make sure I have mine completely empty the next time I need to have something done that requires a lift. Heavy vans.
Looking forward to seeing the end product on this! |
I think the big issue is lazy techs that don't adjust and place the arms properly.
I'd bet 75% of the vans I see have at least some damage from this. _________________ http://www.cavevan.com |
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IdeaNerd Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2016 Posts: 596 Location: Central California
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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Cool to see the Sprinter <-> Eurovan side-by-side comparison. I've wondered about how far apart they are in size. Bigger difference than I expected! |
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Xtremjeepn Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012 Posts: 1539 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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IdeaNerd wrote: |
Cool to see the Sprinter <-> Eurovan side-by-side comparison. I've wondered about how far apart they are in size. Bigger difference than I expected! |
.....and that doesn't even show an actual "big" Sprinter _________________ http://www.cavevan.com |
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Xtremjeepn Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012 Posts: 1539 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:41 am Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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Work on Jake's van has started kinda slow. We have been sorting out some details on what exactly the vision is going to be for this van.
I found myself in the mood to remove the roof yesterday. I usually do the cut in 2 sections. One it the big rectangle and the other will come later. That's the detail work for the half moon shape at the front.
Having the interior stripped out and the roof off makes the van much easier to work in too
MV Tintop
Sunroof ....on its way to being a Weekender +
_________________ http://www.cavevan.com |
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mastersryan! Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2016 Posts: 34 Location: Manchester, NH
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Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:03 am Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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Can't wait to see the progress of this van.
On a side note, what are these vans bringing in money wise for donor vehicles? Just curious to what people have been able to find and pay for them. _________________ 1993 VW Eurovan MV Weekender 2.5L 5cyl 5spd 230,xxxmiles and counting!
2018 VW Tiguan SEL 2.0T 4Motion |
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IdeaNerd Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2016 Posts: 596 Location: Central California
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Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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Always fun to watch the progress on these.
Inspiring too! Thanks for posting. |
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jakefromstatefarm Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2016 Posts: 46 Location: Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:50 am Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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mastersryan!,
My turquoise donor (shown above) was $1050, plus another $1200 to ship it to Cole in Colorado. The MV was $6000, plus another $1200 to ship. The conversion alone will be a little less than $5000 on top of it all, and that includes a new 3 window canvas tent for up top and paint/finishing it.
I can't say enough about working with Cole. He was super helpful long before I decided to do a conversion through him, and even more so now. Aside from the conversion, he's really good at giving ideas and drawing from an immense amount of experience when it comes to my "why this or why not that" questions.
Jake |
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IdeaNerd Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2016 Posts: 596 Location: Central California
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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jakefromstatefarm wrote: |
mastersryan!,
My turquoise donor (shown above) was $1050, plus another $1200 to ship it to Cole in Colorado. The MV was $6000, plus another $1200 to ship. The conversion alone will be a little less than $5000 on top of it all, and that includes a new 3 window canvas tent for up top and paint/finishing it.
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Thanks for sharing these numbers, @jakefromstatefarm -- I find them very interesting.
It surprises me that nobody seems to sell a Westfalia-comparable DIY poptop conversion product here in the U.S., as such kits seem to be pretty easy to come by in Europe and the UK. The more I look at the "poptop camper" (i.e. not just VW) market in the U.S., the more I keep finding myself surprised by how poorly served it is in the U.S. relative to Europe, the UK, and perhaps even Australia.
Has anyone here ever looked into importing conversion poptop kits by the dozens (to make shipping reasonable), or designing and fabricating them stateside? I'm curious. (It's a pretty resourceful bunch of people here, so I'm guessing/assuming someone has already dug into the possibilities there, but I'm not finding anything via cursory searches of the EV forum.)
Thanks again for sharing this project with us so far! |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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There are several Reimo dealers now in NA who should be able to import both poptop and hightop options for the Eurovans. Additionally, Reimo also sells complete camper interiors. When our kids head off to college in a few short years, we're thinking about converting our Weekender over to a full camper with either an imported Canadian Westfalia CV interior or a Reimo version. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Xtremjeepn Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2012 Posts: 1539 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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There are a couple of issues with the aftermarket top conversions.
The obvious one is that the roof is "van sized" so it's really hard and expensive to ship.
These top conversions don't make the interior trim look like "factory" like the Westfalia interior does. Not that they can't look nice, but almost more than the top, I use whole donor vans so that I can convert all the interior trim to look like it did from the factory. (Curtains on sliders, curtain snaps, lights, window to top moulding, latch, etc, it's a lot of parts, not just a "top")
Reproducing the top itself is fairy easy. It's all the other stuff!!
As soon as I get all that figured out I'll let everyone know
Many of the aftermarket tops in the UK don't follow VW structural guide. They don't add a roof cross brace.
Many are priced without an upper bed.
If you need a replacement part, tent, etc, where do you get it? Now or in 10 years?!?
Just things to consider.
Also, *most* of the camper interior kits available are for right hand drive vans. Making kits in the USA is on my to-do list. Just need the time to-do _________________ http://www.cavevan.com |
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fkahlert Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2016 Posts: 57 Location: Connecticut
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:24 am Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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not trying to be too argumentative and i totally agree that the whole westfalia setup is nice.
However, Reimo (German company) has a long history of building pop and high roofs for camper van conversions and they look nice and are nicely finished. They are probably THE source for camper van stuff in Europe. As far as I know they also work with the manufacturers when designing new conversions and comply with all legal safety standards and manufacturer requirements in the way they build them.
Its unfortunate that they are not really available here even though we all saw the first Metris conversion that someone did in NA - the first real replacement option.
It would be nice if their stuff was readily available here, but I guess the market for smart modern camper conversion gear is too small in the land of big rigs and posh plushy oak paneled overstuffed van conversions.
My 2 cents
Florian |
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sdunn35 Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2008 Posts: 38 Location: Concord, CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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fkahlert wrote: |
I guess the market for smart modern camper conversion gear is too small in the land of big rigs and posh plushy oak paneled overstuffed van conversions.
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That is no doubt a major reason. It would be interesting to know how well Jucy USA does. That could be an indicator of total addressable market stateside. Despite claimed long term trends away from ownership,, there is something about a vehicle that you can live in that seems to have persistent appeal to youth. |
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Itsamoto Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2014 Posts: 393 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:22 am Post subject: Re: New MV to Poptop Conversion Project |
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sdunn35 wrote: |
fkahlert wrote: |
I guess the market for smart modern camper conversion gear is too small in the land of big rigs and posh plushy oak paneled overstuffed van conversions.
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That is no doubt a major reason. It would be interesting to know how well Jucy USA does. That could be an indicator of total addressable market stateside. Despite claimed long term trends away from ownership,, there is something about a vehicle that you can live in that seems to have persistent appeal to youth. |
Perhaps Jucy is worthy of post on its own - but I just did a quick quote and it worked out to about $1k for 2 weeks of rental (including insurance). Not sure if that rate is high or not - but I'm not keen to be driving somebody's billboard around for them (for free). I'd actually expect to be compensated back for that mobile advertising -- say about $500 per week. |
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