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Fenix
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2016
Posts: 468
Location: St Louis
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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| dustymojave wrote: |
It's looking good. And I approve of the direction you're still going with the build. The dash is sweet. Not too much bling or un-needed complication.
You guys talk about 1/4" wall tube and plate for dash boards, where I would use 1/16". But that's OK. Use what ya got. That's old school right there. I have a dash out of a 40 year old Hi Jumper race car (not mine) in my garage that's made out of 1/4" 6061 aluminum plate. It's mainly intended to be a wall hanger ornament. Like my Sprint Car wing. Only reason I kept it long ago and didn't scrap it.
Score on the front end parts. The Wright rack is the original deal and so are the Combo spindles. Cecil Wright invented that stuff and all the rest are just imitations. |
For mine the Tube was 1/16...1/4 plate was used for end caps. I was going to screw them in until my brother got a new job and needed to prove he could use the plasma cutters and tig welders to their standards so he used my dash as the test piece. |
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Fenix
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2016
Posts: 468
Location: St Louis
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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| jimmyhoffa wrote: |
Cbeck and Fenix, I'll be there the whole time, but no buggy, and I don't know anyone with an open seat. Way to much to do in like 8 days or whatever.  I am easily going to make the fall one and I'll have my car well debugged by then.
Fenix, "might not make it" sounds to me like you're close, what do ya need? |
Got the old seats and the 1/32” thick 2 inch wide crap they were attached to cut out 2 Sunday’s ago. Last Sunday managed to get the “cabin” crossmembers welded back into the frame, new seat pans fabed and slotted. Got the seatbelt mounting locations marked and a new rear bar bent and test fit for the shoulder harness mounts to be in the right angle and distance for the double shear brackets.
To be running I Just need to weld in the bar and brackets. Rattle can the new steel, and final wire the alternator. Then rewire the lights and finish my speedo rebuild. But sons ball is full blast with tournaments now through August with a 3 week trip to New York to play at Cooperstown so time is not on my side.
I really like the deadman switch, was thinking of the same thing. I like your solution, it’s simple/functional/mechanical. |
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cbeck
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:44 am Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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If history repeats itself, my wife will bail on thurs or fri night. Weather guesser calling for a low of 45 sat morn. Will pm you if that seat opens up. Got to spend all of this weekend primping.
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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779 |
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jimmyhoffa
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 1055
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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Keep me posted! I'll be going either way, I can always take my dirt bike so I can park behind a dumpster or in a bike rack or whatever because it's usually pretty crowded.
Like I was saying DZUS tabbing sucks a big bunch but I finished it all.  saved the easy stuff for last like bolting the roof on. Here's a more majestic sunlight shot of my dash and mirror arrangement.
Body all DZUSed up!
One trick I discovered if you don't already have a body hole is to tab the chassis first, then shine an exceedingly bright light through the 'glass so you can see the DZUS shadow.
Then ya just go and drill ya up a little hole! Zippy zip!
_________________
1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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I like that shut off switch. I suggest instead of a fuse, go for a circuit breaker.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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jimmyhoffa
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Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 1055
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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Sweeeeet that's good to hear. One because you've seen a lot of stuff crash.
Second, I'm hoping you know something I don't. For the life of me I can't source a breaker that can take what I expect to be starter motor current. This style (in non-Chinese copy form) doesn't go above 150 amps. Seems like start current on a starter motor is more than that.
https://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-CB185-150-Type-Circuit-Breaker/dp/B001PT7XBE
For lack of finding a suitably large breaker, I was going to use one of those stamped sheet metal hourglass fusable links that bolt across some studs. I am running a early 2000s TDI gear reduction starter.
_________________
1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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Look at the watts the breaker is to handle. Many breakers are rated at much higher voltage than the automotive 12V. Like 110, or 240, or more.
Watts = Volts x Amps
or
Say a breaker is rated for 50 amps. That doesn't sound near enough.
If it's rated for 50 Amps at 240 Volts:
240V x 50A = 12KW or 12,000 Watts
So the breaker will take 12KW before it blows.
But at 12Volts:
240V/12V = 20
50A x 20 = 1,000 Amps before it blows
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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jimmyhoffa
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Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 1055
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:08 am Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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Wooooah I didn't even think to check that. I knew about the total wattage thing, I just didn't even think to look at the rating!
Turns out that breaker I linked to that is advertised as "being used to interrupt auxiliary systems on RV's boats and cars" is actually rated at 42V, and I just assumed 12 based on how it was advertised. So that's actually 525 Amps @ 12VDC. Awesome! I was pretty scared of those other import ones for safety stuff, but I trust the EATON Bussman Hi-Amp ones, having used them a lot on other things.
https://www.waytekwire.com/item/46989/EATON-s-Bussmann-Series-185150F-01-1-Surface/
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1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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dustymojave
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:36 pm Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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I've worn many hats in my career, none of those said "Electrical Engineer". But my dad used to wire P3 Orion sub-hunter planes, and U-2s and SR-71s before he went to work for NASA, where he inspected electrical systems and lots more that wound up in space and on the moon. He taught me a little.
Like how you do NOT need relays to operate offroad lights when the toggle switches commonly available are rated at 8 amps and that's how many amps your lights will draw per pair, but the switch is rated for 250Volt and the lights on the car will be operating on a 12V system (more accurately about 14V...but still). He worked on hi-tech stuff, but advocated keeping it simple.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Fenix
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2016
Posts: 468
Location: St Louis
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 3:55 am Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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| dustymojave wrote: |
Like how you do NOT need relays to operate offroad lights when the toggle switches commonly available are rated at 8 amps and that's how many amps your lights will draw per pair, but the switch is rated for 250Volt and the lights on the car will be operating on a 12V system (more accurately about 14V...but still). He worked on hi-tech stuff, but advocated keeping it simple. |
Might be true if using the old school metal bodied toggles. But the new eBay el Cheapo led lit rockers with novelty labeling are 2 amps/12v. I’ve seen some of the eBay $2.99 “zombie lights” and “Sasquatch lights” style as low as 1 amp/12v... |
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jimmyhoffa
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Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 1055
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 5:27 am Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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| dustymojave wrote: |
| Like how you do NOT need relays to operate offroad lights when the toggle switches commonly available are rated at 8 amps and that's how many amps your lights will draw per pair, but the switch is rated for 250Volt and the lights on the car will be operating on a 12V system (more accurately about 14V...but still). He worked on hi-tech stuff, but advocated keeping it simple. |
Ooooh yesss your voice soothes me. I'm the exact same way, I'll pay a little extra for robust simplicity. These Honeywell NT (and the even better military TL) toggle switches are rated at 18A@24V. Among my friends, these switches have almost a cult-like following and when any one of us does a project without them or using a cheaper counterpart, we make sure to make fun of that person.
https://www.grainger.com/product/HONEYWELL-Toggle-Switch-24D407
So yeah, my light switch panel on my dash was $60 in switches. And I'll never have to think about them again, or their associated relays because they don't exist.
In this same vein, Pollak makes a really nice super heavy duty ignition switch, 31-499, with a 75A make rating on the start contact, which is awesome peace of mind for not running a starter relay and keeping that out of the equation too! Naturally this is both in my Chenowth dash and my Bobcat I have for yard work.
http://products.pollakaftermarket.com/item/switche...tch/31-499
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1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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Fenix
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2016
Posts: 468
Location: St Louis
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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| jimmyhoffa wrote: |
| dustymojave wrote: |
| Like how you do NOT need relays to operate offroad lights when the toggle switches commonly available are rated at 8 amps and that's how many amps your lights will draw per pair, but the switch is rated for 250Volt and the lights on the car will be operating on a 12V system (more accurately about 14V...but still). He worked on hi-tech stuff, but advocated keeping it simple. |
Ooooh yesss your voice soothes me. I'm the exact same way, I'll pay a little extra for robust simplicity. These Honeywell NT (and the even better military TL) toggle switches are rated at 18A@24V. Among my friends, these switches have almost a cult-like following and when any one of us does a project without them or using a cheaper counterpart, we make sure to make fun of that person.
https://www.grainger.com/product/HONEYWELL-Toggle-Switch-24D407
So yeah, my light switch panel on my dash was $60 in switches. And I'll never have to think about them again, or their associated relays because they don't exist.
In this same vein, Pollak makes a really nice super heavy duty ignition switch, 31-499, with a 75A make rating on the start contact, which is awesome peace of mind for not running a starter relay and keeping that out of the equation too! Naturally this is both in my Chenowth dash and my Bobcat I have for yard work.
http://products.pollakaftermarket.com/item/switche...tch/31-499 |
Nice call on the ignition, I might order me one. Cant beat those old school switches. Only relays I will have on mine is the EP27 flasher/Hazard relay and the horn relay...running an old Model T "A-Uga" to run it through a 19mm push button to match the hazard latching push button. |
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dustymojave
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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Fenix, those switches are for toys. IF you were to use some of them in a buggy with relays to handle the current, then you still would have to worry about dust, dirt, mud, etc. Go for the real thing.
In the pic above, the turn indicator switch (on-off-on SPDT) in the 4-screw sub panel to the right of the speedo, the horn switch (momentary-on spst) between the headlight and wiper knobs above the radio, and the back-up light switch not visible behind the right rim of the steering wheel and next to the ash tray have all been in place since about 1975 and have somewhere towards 1/2 million miles of on and off-road use. Not one of them has ever given me an instant of issue. And I fully expect them to last beyond my life span.
Such switches are in stock in my local Ace Hardware today. I bought the ones you see above from a local hardware and nursery in the 70s. Yeah, if I were to buy similar for another project right now, I probably would not get the same quality I got then. But I would still expect them to be vastly better than the ones you referred to from evilBay.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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dustymojave
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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Here's something of the sort that came up in an instant when I searched eBay for "Toggle switch - 8A 250V".
This one is marine rated, so probably good for dust and mud as well as water. Lots of other such switches came up. This was just one of the 1st on the list.
Price - $13.99
If you want something to light up on the dash when the circuit is 'ON', then add a small LED next to the switch.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Fenix
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2016
Posts: 468
Location: St Louis
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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| dustymojave wrote: |
Here's something of the sort that came up in an instant when I searched eBay for "Toggle switch - 8A 250V".
This one is marine rated, so probably good for dust and mud as well as water. Lots of other such switches came up. This was just one of the 1st on the list.
Price - $13.99
If you want something to light up on the dash when the circuit is 'ON', then add a small LED next to the switch. |
They are left overs from prototypes, not the cheep toy ones. They are mil-spec and IP66 rated momentaries. So dust “Tight”, splash proof, direct water from a pressure nozzle proof, and “high seas” resistant...after 15 years still don’t know what classifies as high seas... and cost about as much more with LED indicator than the one you posted with the same IP rating. I could run the horn no relay...but it will take as much current as I can give it, with the relay and 10awg wire feeds it’s about 2x as loud as through just the button.
All other switches with the exception are the tried and true IP77 submergable toggle switches.
Here’s a link.
http://www.bulgin.com/stainless-steel-vandal-resis...group.html
Last edited by Fenix on Tue May 01, 2018 8:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dustymojave
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 5802
Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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| Fenix wrote: |
| dustymojave wrote: |
Like how you do NOT need relays to operate offroad lights when the toggle switches commonly available are rated at 8 amps and that's how many amps your lights will draw per pair, but the switch is rated for 250Volt and the lights on the car will be operating on a 12V system (more accurately about 14V...but still). He worked on hi-tech stuff, but advocated keeping it simple. |
Might be true if using the old school metal bodied toggles. But the new eBay el Cheapo led lit rockers with novelty labeling are 2 amps/12v. I’ve seen some of the eBay $2.99 “zombie lights” and “Sasquatch lights” style as low as 1 amp/12v... |
I meant the cheapo ones you referred to here.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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jimmyhoffa
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Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 1055
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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Well, we are arriving at the last few chapters of the initial build here with the 2RL. I scored a nice 5 speed manual f-150 and traded up trailers to a 12x6 with a big axle under it, and now life with buggy got easier. (life owning a Bobcat got a lot easier too)
I drove the car enough to be sure I liked all the control placement and everything, and got everything tuned real nice. I think the only nagging thing I want on the engine is to re-make my single IDF 1-5/8" manifold as a smaller 1-1/2" manifold with a tiny crossover tube to hopefully clean up the idle just a bit.
Then what did I do? Well, I took it apart.
It goes to a talented friend next week for full weld out. I can do it, but we're doing a little favor trading and he is an incredible fabricator and multi-certified welder. I've seen plenty of his cage work on 10 second cars and I'm excited about this.
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1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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cbeck
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Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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Speaking of quick little cars, I saw this one today. Not air cooled. Not rear engine. Not enough room between rear tires. Pulled up behind him and I could feel the rumble with Windows up and ac cranked.
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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779 |
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dustymojave
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Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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Yeah and I see your gas is more than $1 cheaper than here in Cali too. Mobil There: $2.64. Here is like $3.89 for Regular...IF you shop for it by price.
Thank you Jerry Brown.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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jimmyhoffa
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Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 1055
Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:30 am Post subject: Re: Given (probably) a Chenowth 2lw, a few vintage buggy questions |
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Whoever this "Jerry Brown" character is obviously a nefarious soul... I know in Skiing a "Jerry" is someone who is generally incapable or a novice, so I assume that carries over to governing.
Finished "heavily tacking" my trans mounts on. Lazily, because I picked it up and set it on some tires so I could get under it real easy. The Bobcat wasn't having it from the side.
I got er jacked up though!
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1974 Chenowth 2RL #1244 Street Legal
My other car isn't ridiculous. |
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