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CarlosZ
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

I've almost everything to get the bus running.

Should I install the carbs prior to or after installing the engine? Prior threads suggest to install after or only install the manifolds. I'd like to install the engine with the carbs due to the lack of a 73-79 engine hatch.

Is the copper washer the way to go with the oil pressure switch? Any specific type of washer? Will a little permatex aviation gasket be wise with or w/o the washer?

Which is the best way to route the sender wire for a CHT gauge? I don't have the CHT, but will get one soon. I was thinking of getting the sender wire and routing it prior to installing the engine. I ground the head (#3) a bit to allow the sender to sit flat on the head. Is it better to put the wire through the spark plug hole in the tin or run through the tins somehow and keep out of sight? This looks to be the better route, but much easier with the tins out. Not sure if the wire will melt from sitting on the head.

I left me distributor laying around (w/o the cap) and it got all grimey inside from me blowing the garage with my blower. Can I use some electric cleaning spray or will brushing/dusting suffice? Its an SVDA with petronix.

Thanks again for all the help. Would be lost more than I am w/o you guys/gals.
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orwell84
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

From what I've read, the 142 cam is stock in name only and was never a stock grind for a bus...not to beat a dead horse, there are a lot of threads discussing cams and I readily admit I am only repeating what I've read and don't know much about cams.
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Hoody
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

As far as the head temp gauge wire goes I would strongly suggest doing this before you install the engine. I drilled a small hole in the tin close but not too close to the plug hole. I used a small clip to attach the wire to the fin after the ring was seated. Then ran the wire up through hole in the tin with a small rubber grommet in the tin and used some black permatex to seal up around the wire coming through the grommet. Don't run the wires under the tins unless you want to pull the engine to address any issues down the road. Hope this helps.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

CarlosZ wrote:

I left me distributor laying around (w/o the cap) and it got all grimey inside from me blowing the garage with my blower. Can I use some electric cleaning spray or will brushing/dusting suffice? Its an SVDA with petronix.


WD40 makes a pretty good cleaner and is not as aggressive as brake/electrical cleaner. The distributor plates are lubed with grease and you don't want to wash the grease out unless you intend to disassemble the dizzy and relube the plates. You will want to apply motoroil to the various locations in the dizzy as per your shop manual once you have it clean.
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rockerarm
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

CarlosZ wrote:
I've almost everything to get the bus running.

Should I install the carbs prior to or after installing the engine? Prior threads suggest to install after or only install the manifolds. I'd like to install the engine with the carbs due to the lack of a 73-79 engine hatch.

Is the copper washer the way to go with the oil pressure switch? Any specific type of washer? Will a little permatex aviation gasket be wise with or w/o the washer?

Which is the best way to route the sender wire for a CHT gauge? I don't have the CHT, but will get one soon. I was thinking of getting the sender wire and routing it prior to installing the engine. I ground the head (#3) a bit to allow the sender to sit flat on the head. Is it better to put the wire through the spark plug hole in the tin or run through the tins somehow and keep out of sight? This looks to be the better route, but much easier with the tins out. Not sure if the wire will melt from sitting on the head.

I left me distributor laying around (w/o the cap) and it got all grimey inside from me blowing the garage with my blower. Can I use some electric cleaning spray or will brushing/dusting suffice? Its an SVDA with petronix.

Thanks again for all the help. Would be lost more than I am w/o you guys/gals.


Hello Carlos.
I prefer and have always installed the carbs, linkage, and all the misc items prior to the install. This is especially easier on your model of Bay Bus. I would even make sure the air filter housing fits.
Why not start your engine up on the ground? You can use your existing trans to support the starter.
Normally, the oil pressure sender is a tapered thread, and would use no crushable washer/gasket. But, if the original threaded hole doesn't allow the tapered thread to work possibly the gasket would work. Or an adaptor could be bought that would suffice.
As far as the distrib goes, I would remove the module, clean with brake cleaner, blow out, lube center shaft, and reinstall the module.
Be diligent about prepping the engine to start right away. Carbs full of gas. Ignition functioning and static timed. Method to monitor oil pressure. Crank for oil pressure (poss with plugs removed). Web Cams spec'd oil for breakin. Extra oil and filter for change.
Hope this helps, Bill.
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CarlosZ
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

orwell84 wrote:
From what I've read, the 142 cam is stock in name only and was never a stock grind for a bus...not to beat a dead horse, there are a lot of threads discussing cams and I readily admit I am only repeating what I've read and don't know much about cams.


The bus wanted bigger balls so I went with the Web73.

@Wildthings - is there a specific WD40 product or will the regular one work?

@Hoody - do you have a pic of the drilled hole and where you eventually routed the wire to pass the tin that sits above the flywheel? I don't have the parts yet and don't know the exact size of the wire.

@Rockerarm - I'm going to install the engine with the carbs installed. The tranny is still in the bus so no starting on the floor. The OP switch is OG, but I added a little teflon tape just in case. I think there should still be enough metal to metal contact to get a good signal.

Just waiting on the cht to install the carbs. Was hoping to have the bus running a couple months ago, but keep finding PO hacks or missing parts which make me go off on a tangent.

PO hacked buses and ADD = no bueno

Don't know where I'd be without you guys. Must of sucked working on these before the Internet.
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KentABQ Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

CarlosZ wrote:
Must of sucked working on these before the Internet.

It sucked BIGTIME! When I had my '71 in the early 80's, I only had a Chiltons and the Idiots books. I didn't even know there was a Bentleys available. On top of that, buses/vans were not popular, so very few people had them.

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Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!"
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Bus ownership via emoticons:
Very Happy Shocked Mad Sad Embarassed d'oh! Pray Brick wall Pray Dancing Dancing Dancing ---williamM
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CarlosZ
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

Engine is in. Hit a wall with the CB performance dual Weber manifolds. The gaskets are too big and touching the tins. Can I cut/shave them where touching the tins? No cutting on the inside of course. While staring at the gaskets I thought, "maybe I should check the manifold also". I remember reading a while back a thread where I think aeromech mentions to make sure the manifold weren't touching the tins. I would've probably not given it a thought but guess what? They're bottoming out on the tins. What are my options at this point? I'm dreading a date with the tins again. This time the engine is in the bus. Demoralized to say the least.
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old DKP driver
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

Hi Carlos,
I sent you a pm awhile back about the D D WIRE installation? and yes it
would have made more sense to install the manifolds with the engine
OUT OF THE BUS as Bill (rockerarm) also mentioned. Sad

The gaskets from CB performance should not need trimming.So. now you should
just remove some of the screws and move the sheet metal around until
the gaskets sit Flat on the heads. :fist: Take your time.
as it will be well worth it.

A Large mirror may also help you in seeing the gasket position.

Chris
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TomWesty
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

KentPS wrote:
CarlosZ wrote:
Must of sucked working on these before the Internet.

It sucked BIGTIME! When I had my '71 in the early 80's, I only had a Chiltons and the Idiots books. I didn't even know there was a Bentleys available. On top of that, buses/vans were not popular, so very few people had them.

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Amen brother! I did a lot of wrong headed crap before coming here. Busdaddy, Wildthings, Desertbusman, Aeromech, Randy in Maine, Colin, Sgkent, the late great Karl, Robbie, Tcash, Skillz. All have helped keep my bus going. Special Patrol Group website. Ratwell. And all you other magnificent bastards!
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CarlosZ
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

Did some Greco Roman wrestling with the right side tins and moved it the few mm it took to clear the tin. Left side was good thank god. Made some progress. It was recommended I grease the linkage ball joints. Off to buy some grease and oil. 30w or 40w good for the cam break-in?

Thanks for the words of encouragement. Almost there.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

You're almost there!!! It won't be long now til we're racing down PCH... Dancing
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1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"

"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!"
---WildIdea

Bus ownership via emoticons:
Very Happy Shocked Mad Sad Embarassed d'oh! Pray Brick wall Pray Dancing Dancing Dancing ---williamM
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Busstom
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

Awesome. Carbureted type 4s look so much cleaner than FI models...you can actually see the top of the case, and there is no harness bundle draped over everything with gadgets screwed to the walls of the engine compartment.

Looking forward to the break-in.

By the way, your timing scale looks a little toasted. If it's not fully legible, you may wanna try to clean it up and find the obscured marks and remark them with a Sharpie or something. I realize the worst of it's down near TDC.
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WildIdea
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

^^^love that picture^^^
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udidwht
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

CarlosZ wrote:
Did some Greco Roman wrestling with the right side tins and moved it the few mm it took to clear the tin. Left side was good thank god. Made some progress. It was recommended I grease the linkage ball joints. Off to buy some grease and oil. 30w or 40w good for the cam break-in?

Thanks for the words of encouragement. Almost there.


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It is best to test fit the manifolds on the heads after all the tin is in place (prior to engine install).


As for break in oil. 30W non-detergent for the first 300 miles. Then over to an oil that has a good zin/phos level such as Valvoline VR-1

With regards to your breather box hose you'll need. You can route it to a can/puke box or to the atmosphere. If you route to a can the carbs will still in time end up all oily (been there done that) I'd run a hose long enough with a breather filter on the end. Keep the hose run going in an upward direction such as I did....

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1255847.jpg


As for final jetting with the IDF 40's...

50 ildes
120-125 mains
180 air correctors
28mm vents
fuel pressure no more than 3.5lbs (critical)
Float height 10-11mm
Float drop 28-32mm (less critical)
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Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
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73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
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CarlosZ
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

The scale was/is beat to crap but still looks accurate and legible. Didn't clean as it looks painted and afraid I'll remove the paint. Maybe I'll try some mild soap water.

Any suggestions on a 30w oil i can get today at a FLAP? This might be a dumb question candidate. Is the filter to be changed between all break-in oil changes? My guess is yes.

My engine has no heating parts. I'm going to run the oil breather hose (through one of the many open holes in the tin) and let it dump out somewhere under the rear of the bus. Sorry in advance to all you bikers.

CB linkage question. The bracket that holds the linkage that fits on top of the carbs has two holes. Which is a better position to mount the linkage? I think lower may be better as my throttle cable may be too short for the higher up position.

I've never used a timing light and am borrowing a tach from a friend for the cam break-in and timing. .006 valve gap? Does the timing change due to the carbs and petronix?

Thanks again!
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CarlosZ
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

Looking over the wires and cannot find the oil sender wire. It's connected tho the gauge and into the loom towards the back. I don't see it anywhere in the engine compartment. The sender had a female connection terminal connected to the sender but the wire looks to have broken off a while ago. The wiring from the firewall to the ceiling by the blower has a separate loom that looks to be cut. Is this normal? There is also a wire with a hard plastic cover that is also disconnected. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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udidwht
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

CarlosZ wrote:
The scale was/is beat to crap but still looks accurate and legible. Didn't clean as it looks painted and afraid I'll remove the paint. Maybe I'll try some mild soap water.

Any suggestions on a 30w oil i can get today at a FLAP? This might be a dumb question candidate. Is the filter to be changed between all break-in oil changes? My guess is yes.

My engine has no heating parts. I'm going to run the oil breather hose (through one of the many open holes in the tin) and let it dump out somewhere under the rear of the bus. Sorry in advance to all you bikers.

CB linkage question. The bracket that holds the linkage that fits on top of the carbs has two holes. Which is a better position to mount the linkage? I think lower may be better as my throttle cable may be too short for the higher up position.

Regardless of whether you have heat or not the breather needs a filter of some on the end. It breathes in/out the Fi?ter prevents and/ or greatly limits entry of deebris.

Yes the timing will need to be set after installing distributor with Pertronix.

You'll know more of linkage placement once installed. Put together as test fit first than eyeball everything well ensuring the downarms don't bind and are as near vertical as you can get.


I've never used a timing light and am borrowing a tach from a friend for the cam break-in and timing. .006 valve gap? Does the timing change due to the carbs and petronix?

Thanks again!


As for a recommended 30w non detergent oil. Use any you can find just be certain it is non detergent. This helps to break in parts. Detergent washes the parts and limits break in wear. Run it 300 miles with it then drain/change filter then switch to something like Valvoline VR-1 10w-30

Be sure and set valve lash to .006 prior to initial cam break in. Cool down afterwards to stone cold than check lash again. Drain non detergent oil then refill with non detergent and run 300 miles. After cam break in is done check lash once again (cold engine).

You have an LM-2? This is the only way to get the carbs dialed in accurately AFR wise once broke in.

As for ring break in...city driving is best. Limit any steady highway miles for the first 500-1000 miles.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires
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CarlosZ
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

No LM-2. I'll look into getting one.

I think I found the oil sender wire. Looks to run along the coil wires and was sticking out in inch at the end of the og wiring sheath. The color is a bit off due to the oil. It looks close. What do you think?


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vic74westy
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild advice Reply with quote

Looks like it! The oil sender wire is blue/green on my 74. If you ground it with the ignition on your warning lamp should glow
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