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Glenn73
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Joined: May 30, 2011
Posts: 1190
Location: West Jordan UT
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 Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:11 pm Post subject: No start and electrical issues. |
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So My dad and I have a 85 Vanagon Gl that has a rebuilt 2.1L Waterboxer. We can't get it to start. We are getting a spark and fuel. Compression is good but seems weak but this motor has not been started since the build. The odd electrical issues are with the turn signals and the oil pressure light. This van has sat for 11 years and was all working aside from oil pressure problems hence why it got parked. The Oil light flashes for less than a second when the key is turned and does not stay on. The turn signals and 4 ways were only doing solid lights so I swapped out the relay and they "work" now. The light in the dash has a dim glow and when we turn the key the relay clicks quickly.
Help please.
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1973 Super Sat from 93-2008
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1986 Vanagon thread Sat from 2005-2017 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=719692
VW Transporter production film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rceTqDtGgz8 |
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bluebus86
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Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: No start and electrical issues. |
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| Glenn73 wrote: |
So My dad and I have a 85 Vanagon Gl that has a rebuilt 2.1L Waterboxer. We can't get it to start. We are getting a spark and fuel. Compression is good but seems weak but this motor has not been started since the build. The odd electrical issues are with the turn signals and the oil pressure light. This van has sat for 11 years and was all working aside from oil pressure problems hence why it got parked. The Oil light flashes for less than a second when the key is turned and does not stay on. The turn signals and 4 ways were only doing solid lights so I swapped out the relay and they "work" now. The light in the dash has a dim glow and when we turn the key the relay clicks quickly.
Help please. |
weak compression can be expected until rings seat,
you say the relay clicks when you turn the key, do you mean at the run or the start position?
does the motor turn over?
do you smell raw fuel at the tail pipe?.
the 1985 van came with the 1.9 liter motor. the injections system was changed when vw made the 2.1 liter motors starting in 1986. do you have the 1985 digijet injection or the 1986 and later digifant system?
has the timing been checked? have you double checked that the spark wires are in the correct order (easy mistake to make)
any more details you can provide will help us help you.
if you got spark, fuel and air with compression it should run, assuming timing is right, and plug wires not mixxed.
does she backfire or what when she does not run, does it just crank away with no apparent life at all or?????
we will need a little more to go on to assist if you can, please provide more.
good luck
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Glenn73
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Joined: May 30, 2011
Posts: 1190
Location: West Jordan UT
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| Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: No start and electrical issues. |
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I have checked the spark plug order multiple times. And yeah I know the compression will be a bit low til the ring bed in. It is a late 85 so I would guess it is a Digifant but how would I be able to tell for sure. I can really only roughly static time the motor as it is electronic ignition. Dizzy is mechanical advance only.
The motor just spins away with only a faint smell of fuel from the exhaust. The motor did sit for about two years before we got to be able to start it. Could it be bled down lifters??
And the flasher relay clicks as the motor is cranked.
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1973 Super Sat from 93-2008
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1986 Vanagon thread Sat from 2005-2017 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=719692
VW Transporter production film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rceTqDtGgz8 |
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bluebus86
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Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:32 am Post subject: Re: No start and electrical issues. |
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| Glenn73 wrote: |
I have checked the spark plug order multiple times. And yeah I know the compression will be a bit low til the ring bed in. It is a late 85 so I would guess it is a Digifant but how would I be able to tell for sure. I can really only roughly static time the motor as it is electronic ignition. Dizzy is mechanical advance only.
The motor just spins away with only a faint smell of fuel from the exhaust. The motor did sit for about two years before we got to be able to start it. Could it be bled down lifters??
And the flasher relay clicks as the motor is cranked. |
I believe a mechanical advance dizzie is indicative of a digijet system. digifant did all the advance electronically in the ecu.
on digijet, the spark is from a seperate module, not part of tbe ecu.
lots of possibilities (not what you want to hear, sorry)
the relay that is clicking could be an i dication of a misswire or other fault in the electrics could be ecu is not getting proper voltage, but since you say you have fuel I assume the injectors are firing, so ecu is probably ok
is it possible you have an intake leak? try squirting fuel or starterfluid a tthe intake joints while cranking her over to see if that yileds any thing.
is the fuel in the tank two years old? maybe it went bad? (unlikely I think however)
dead lifters, thats a good ideato look into. you can remove the valve covers and turn the motor to watch to see if the valves move if you suspect lifters have gone dry.
also make sjre the dizzie was placed correctly on the motormake sure it is orientated for the correct top dead center of number one on the compression stroke, not exhaust stroke. so find top dead center for compression stroke for number one (both valves closed) and check orientation of the starter dog drive and dizzie per the official manual
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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Glenn73
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Location: West Jordan UT
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Glenn73
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Location: West Jordan UT
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Glenn73
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Location: West Jordan UT
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MarkWard
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Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17153
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: No start and electrical issues. |
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Unplug the hazard switch and retest.
You'll need to verify the actual oil pressure with a gauge. The engine has two oil pressure switches that act opposite and you may have them in the wrong locations or the wrong switch all together.
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OhBetty
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Location: Salt Lake City
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: No start and electrical issues. |
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Yea, and make sure the instrument panel is completely seated / plugged in via the 14-pin connection. I was recently thrown for a loop by that one (facepalm)
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87' Vanagon Westy (Betty) - 2.1L WBX
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Glenn73
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Location: West Jordan UT
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Glenn73
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Location: West Jordan UT
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Glenn73
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Location: West Jordan UT
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Glenn73
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Location: West Jordan UT
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Glenn73
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ohhorob
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Joined: September 26, 2013
Posts: 212
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: No start and electrical issues. |
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| Glenn73 wrote: |
| My question is how does the fuse block get wet?? |
Rust holes in the windscreen seals will let water in. Depending on where the hole is, water will drip all the way down to the footwell. Don't ask me how I know 
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Glenn73
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Glenn73
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Abscate
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: No start and electrical issues. |
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Bet tool for that is a Dremel. Make those copper tabs shiny copper colour
If you plug them into their sockets about 10 times you will get a good electrical connection. You will need to keep cleaning the, every 6 months or so in a humid climate, less in a desert
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Glenn73
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Posts: 1190
Location: West Jordan UT
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: No start and electrical issues. |
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| Abscate wrote: |
Bet tool for that is a Dremel. Make those copper tabs shiny copper colour
If you plug them into their sockets about 10 times you will get a good electrical connection. You will need to keep cleaning the, every 6 months or so in a humid climate, less in a desert |
The relay is not the concern, that can be replaced. It is the fuse block that is the problem. How do I clean inside it?? It looks sorta like it may come apart but I dont really wanna try and end up breaking it.
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1973 Super Sat from 93-2008
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1986 Vanagon thread Sat from 2005-2017 https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=719692
VW Transporter production film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rceTqDtGgz8 |
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thatvwbusguy
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Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: No start and electrical issues. |
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That is the fuse block for the 86-91 Vanagon. You can't clean inside the fuse block, it's a labyrinth of solid copper pathways in multiple layers.
New fuse blocks are available, but not exactly cheap: http://www.van-cafe.com/page_489_581/fuse-box
The most likely culprits for a leak that soaks the fuse block are the windshield seal and the antenna seal. These can both have rust under the rubber seal that allows water intrusion even if the surrounding area looks pristine.
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'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
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