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houseofboyd Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2014 Posts: 613 Location: Flatwoods, Ky
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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rockerarm wrote: |
Hi John and everyone. Give me a show of hands who thinks the intake pre-heat will cause a carb to run rich? The manifold pre-heat and/or the intake air pre-heat, or lack of it, will not alter a carb's ability to provide a proper fuel/air mixture. Now, below the throttle plate is a different story on how the mixture travels. You can read here from a well respected samba veteran:
http://www.vw-resource.com/heat_risers.html
This concern is carburetor related. I would peer down the carb's throat when this "spitting and sputtering" begins. In fact look down the carb when it seems to be running fine. It should be a fuel free zone above the throttle plate. But I am thinking you will see fuel dribbling out of the main discharge nozzle, or even the accelerator pump nozzle.
The rich smelling is the owner's key here. Another test the owner can try is this. When the spitting/sputtering begins, lightly pinch off the hose from the fuel pump to the carb and see if it clears up. Is it possible the fuel pump is putting out more pressure/volume than needed? The carb's inlet valve is designed to counter this, within reason.
I have no reason to believe you have an ignition mis-fire. But, in the real world I have seen myself a coil/condenser issue confuse me as fuel related.
Hope this helps, Bill. |
Here's the video...
Link
_________________ Our 1968 Zenith Blue Beetle: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=619501
My '74 SB Build On The Samba: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=609943
Our Web Site: http://www.kentuckyhotwheels.com
1968 VW Beetle
2012 Turbo VW Beetle |
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Volks Wagen Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013 Posts: 2926 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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Right - so there's your rich problem. That's the fuel bowl vent. Your fuel bowl is overfilling and overflowing. So your needle/seat is not working/your float is fooooked or your pump is hammering out too much pressure. Take the top off the carb and take a photo of the bowl/float and also the needle/seat from the side and directly at the base of the needle/ballbearing and post up so we can see if there's something odd. _________________ 1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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Do you own that $20 gauge to check your fuel pressure? I'd certainly want to know what it is. Hopefully, it's just your float needle valve that's bad. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9770 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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What is that god awful racket after the engine dies? _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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houseofboyd Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2014 Posts: 613 Location: Flatwoods, Ky
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houseofboyd Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2014 Posts: 613 Location: Flatwoods, Ky
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houseofboyd Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2014 Posts: 613 Location: Flatwoods, Ky
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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Volks Wagen wrote: |
Right - so there's your rich problem. That's the fuel bowl vent. Your fuel bowl is overfilling and overflowing. So your needle/seat is not working/your float is fooooked or your pump is hammering out too much pressure. Take the top off the carb and take a photo of the bowl/float and also the needle/seat from the side and directly at the base of the needle/ballbearing and post up so we can see if there's something odd. |
Will post a pic a.s.a.p...Not sure of your terminology for everything, but I'll do my best... _________________ Our 1968 Zenith Blue Beetle: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=619501
My '74 SB Build On The Samba: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=609943
Our Web Site: http://www.kentuckyhotwheels.com
1968 VW Beetle
2012 Turbo VW Beetle |
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houseofboyd Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2014 Posts: 613 Location: Flatwoods, Ky
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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Volks Wagen wrote: |
Right - so there's your rich problem. That's the fuel bowl vent. Your fuel bowl is overfilling and overflowing. So your needle/seat is not working/your float is fooooked or your pump is hammering out too much pressure. Take the top off the carb and take a photo of the bowl/float and also the needle/seat from the side and directly at the base of the needle/ballbearing and post up so we can see if there's something odd. |
Here are the pics, if you want more, let me know, I left the top off the carb.. has been sitting for an hour or so..Float doesn't look like it's floating to me..notice too that the jet is saturated with gas...
_________________ Our 1968 Zenith Blue Beetle: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=619501
My '74 SB Build On The Samba: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=609943
Our Web Site: http://www.kentuckyhotwheels.com
1968 VW Beetle
2012 Turbo VW Beetle
Last edited by houseofboyd on Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9770 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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Gently take the top carb gasket off. Remove the float and hold it level.
It looks like the tab that the float pivots on is bent. But it may be just the pic. If the float is sunk in the carb bowl it's time for a new one.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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houseofboyd Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2014 Posts: 613 Location: Flatwoods, Ky
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sb001 Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 10406 Location: NW Arkansas
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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I just skimmed through this thread, yes from your photo above it certainly does appear that your float is not floating, it's sunk down into the fuel.
Also, from your first video-- is this a crack in your intake?
Maybe just a mark on the manifold... I have a hard time believing you wouldn't have seen that if it were a crack--just wanted to be sure. _________________ I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor
Last edited by sb001 on Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9770 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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pwmcguire wrote: |
I think it may have to do with your float. How old is your carb? The black floats tend to absorb fuel. They still float but do not shut off the needle valve. If you have a black float change it out with white plastic one. You can weigh them as well, it should be 10.5 grams, but do some research and double check me |
This and this^^^^^^^^
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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houseofboyd Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2014 Posts: 613 Location: Flatwoods, Ky
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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sb001 wrote: |
I just skimmed through this thread, yes from your photo above it certainly does appear that your float is not floating, it's sunk down into the fuel.
Also, from your first video-- is this a crack in your intake?
Maybe just a mark on the manifold... I have a hard time believing you wouldn't have seen that if it were a crack--just wanted to be sure. |
No, that just a mark on the intake... _________________ Our 1968 Zenith Blue Beetle: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=619501
My '74 SB Build On The Samba: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=609943
Our Web Site: http://www.kentuckyhotwheels.com
1968 VW Beetle
2012 Turbo VW Beetle |
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houseofboyd Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2014 Posts: 613 Location: Flatwoods, Ky
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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67rustavenger wrote: |
pwmcguire wrote: |
I think it may have to do with your float. How old is your carb? The black floats tend to absorb fuel. They still float but do not shut off the needle valve. If you have a black float change it out with white plastic one. You can weigh them as well, it should be 10.5 grams, but do some research and double check me |
This and this^^^^^^^^
Good Luck. |
Next thing on the agenda.. Just ordered it... _________________ Our 1968 Zenith Blue Beetle: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=619501
My '74 SB Build On The Samba: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=609943
Our Web Site: http://www.kentuckyhotwheels.com
1968 VW Beetle
2012 Turbo VW Beetle |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2240 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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I dealt with a similar issue you've described, Only with a 34pict.
I followed VW-resource guidance is resetting the carb to factory baseline- disconnect the throttle cable, reset, then reconnect.
Good luck. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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rockerarm Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009 Posts: 3552 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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Hi John. On this pic here there are two jets on the right side of the carb body. They are different dimensions on the orifice. I don't recall which one goes in which hole but the threads are the same, hence interchangeable.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1570666.jpg
I don't have one easily available but someone out there knows.
Did you look at the fuel inlet needle valve?
Bill. |
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VolkzBitz Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2009 Posts: 300 Location: Washington State USA
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Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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You certainly found your problem, the float has absorbed fuel which makes it less buoyant, the new one should fix it.
The 2 jets on the side of the carburetor below the choke are the idle jet and the power jet, the idle jet points slightly rearward and should be a .65, the other one that comes out at 90 degrees should be .50. _________________ http://volkzbitz.com
Quality VW Solex carburetor restoration
[email protected]
Der Vergaser Meister |
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houseofboyd Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2014 Posts: 613 Location: Flatwoods, Ky
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:04 am Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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VolkzBitz wrote: |
You certainly found your problem, the float has absorbed fuel which makes it less buoyant, the new one should fix it.
The 2 jets on the side of the carburetor below the choke are the idle jet and the power jet, the idle jet points slightly rearward and should be a .65, the other one that comes out at 90 degrees should be .50. |
Thanks for your input Tim and for clearing that up for me...hope this new float will make the difference... Much appreciated...! _________________ Our 1968 Zenith Blue Beetle: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=619501
My '74 SB Build On The Samba: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=609943
Our Web Site: http://www.kentuckyhotwheels.com
1968 VW Beetle
2012 Turbo VW Beetle |
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houseofboyd Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2014 Posts: 613 Location: Flatwoods, Ky
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USMCbug Samba Yoda
Joined: April 29, 2004 Posts: 2573 Location: Wichita, KS
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Looking For Input, Still Having Issues |
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I will go ahead and post my experience from the last month and tonight as well as it seems to be inline with the OPs problems.
Been having issues with fuel spitting down the throat of the carb and gurgling with my new to me 71 super. It's a 1600 sp that was very well maintained by the previous owner. Has a newer (less than 2 year old H30/31 carb). I got her October 1 and drover her home from Tulsa, a four hour drive nonstop @65-70 mph. When I got home I could hear the gurgling in the carb/intake. Also the fuel in the oil caused my oil cooler seals to go. Also had a few times where it would hydro lock from fuel in the cylinders. She didn't like to start hot either.
So I started checking things. The needle was clean and I added an extra shim for good measure. The carb would continue to spit fuel down the throat after the car was off. The float is the black solid type and it passed the float test in hot water. So I changed the fuel pump as it had a small leak under the gaskets anyway along with the stand and shimmed it per the Bently.
Problem still happened.
So, today a friend of mine gives me an old German solex 30 pict 2 which had the solex float (brown and hollow) which I put in the newer H30/31. I did the float test again and it too passed. I compared the black solid float with the solex hollow float and the weights were extremely different. Lo and behold after installing the hollow float the problem is gone. Hot start issue is gone as well. Cranks and starts easlily the first time, every time now.
Bottom line is I think the fuel we have with the ethanol is bad for the new solid floats if they are allowed to sit for any length of time.
Sorry this post is so long but I thought I'd put it here for anyone else having these issues. _________________ 72 Super Beetle
73 Standard Beetle
79 Baywindow Bus
65 Split Window Bus
79 Baywindow Bus
71 Super Beetle (current)
"When war does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the
scabbard."
- General Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson |
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