Newbie with engine questions

[aluk]

So, I just bought this buggy with a toasted 1200 engine. I'm not looking to climb the tallest hills or be the fastest around. Should I drop another 1200 in stand be happy or put something a little bigger in. Also, it is on a 6 volt system, is now the time to switch to 12 volt? and if anybody knows anything about the maker of this body, please let me know, thank you.

[clonebug]

Looks like a great start to the buggy addiction.
I would find a nice running 1600 and drive the wheels off it until you figure out what you want to do with it.

I'm on my third engine and now third turbo but started with a 1500 single port I pulled out of an old bug I bought for $100.00.

I have upgraded my buggy every winter in the 12 years I have been driving it along with changing the wiring to suit my upgrades every year.

The start in 2001

2006......Just a good driver.

2013.... New front and rear Seats, a turbo and a new 1679cc engine.

I have added Fuel Injection and a bunch of other fun things since.....

Here it is this past summer on the way to the Big Bear Manx Club meet for a round trip of 3500 miles.

And that is just a little of the fun you can have.........I don't tell many people how much I have into this thing........
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[wythac]

I'd agree with what clonebug told you and add the following:

A complete later model 1600 with an alternator would be a good starting place for your parts scavenger hunt...even if its seized up, as long as the case is good you can rebuild.

Depending on how intact your existing motor is it may be worth enough money in parts to finance your upgrade. Check out the engine forum for more detail.

It IS a good time to do your 12v conversion.

Don't go hogwild on motor parts, just get a solid and reliable stock 1600 to get it rolling, as you may find once its running that you've got other things on the car requiring attention and dough.

Keep your major purchase receipts. But don't add them up!

Good luck on your project.

[Wolfgangdieter]

Toasted is not very descriptive. It might be that your current engine just needs an inexpensive rebuild (rings, bearings, seals and a valve job) - $200. Take it apart and learn what you have to work with. It might be an easy fix. If you have deep pockets $5k will buy a nice engine.
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CMC '57 Porsche Speedster Replica and Dolphin boat tailed full pan VW MOD-T Street Buggy

[aluk]

Wolfgangdieter _ Sorry, toasted is all I got at this point. When I went to buy it, it had been sitting in the same place since 2006. At that time he pulled off the valve covers and exhaust from one side and started to disassemble the head. He encountered a problem and there it sat. I noticed a few parts imbedded in the sludge at the bottom of the oil drip pan. He even said in the ad,"smoked badly last time he drove it and engine not worth rebuilding". I was happy with the price, everything was there (just faded). Now I need to make it run. Engine replacement is the worst case scenario and I accepted that fact prior to purchase. If this engine can be saved, bonus! I will have it in my garage on Tuesday and then I can crawl all over it and better assess the situation. I know it is sitting on a "63 pan with what appears to be a decent splice job. Single gauge in dash ( I'm happy dash hadn't been cut up gauges) appears to be from same era bug as well a seat mounts. Motor from an '84, I was told. Anyway, I am excited about the endless pile of receipts I am about to amass. Any advice along the way will always be appreciated. Thanks, Mitch

[aluk]

That's what I was leaning towards too. I will have it home tuesday and I can take a closer look at what I have.thanks.

[aluk]

The wiring appears to be a pretty clean job. Is al I need to do the conversion a kit like this, or what else is involved?
http://www.jbugs.com/product/6-12-VOLT-KIT.html

[Wolfgangdieter]

An '84 1200cc engine would be one of the last Mexican engines produced. Wonder if it has any potential value? Suspect since engine is one of latest it might be "advanced" and worth rebuilding.
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CMC '57 Porsche Speedster Replica and Dolphin boat tailed full pan VW MOD-T Street Buggy

[tgodber]

i started with a 1200 in my first project that ran briefly then the flywheel came loose and it screwed the dowels on the crank.

Found a local VW guy to build me a stock 1600. That was 10 years ago. Best thing I did.

You will need to check size of your flywheel if you go with a 1600. Larger flywheel will have clearance issues.

Good luck.
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My wife said I never listen to her.
Or something like that!

[aluk]

Clonebug I would be interested to see a close up of your steering column/wheel area. what are you using for your turn signal lever?

[Dale M.]

I would go slow buying the 12v electrical conversion kit.... If you get late model engine and do exchange it may already have 12 volt generator/alternator and coil... Only other big ticket item may be starter ( also NOT mentioned in kit) and you can get rebuilt starter at Autozone or O'rilleys or online fairly inexpensive..... Only other expense would be sealed beams and a few light bulbs... For seal beams I would go Halogen H4 over incandescent and that leaves a hand fill of light bulbs for tail/stop/turnsignal and instrument lighting and a turn signal flasher...... If done right you may only have to spend less than half what the conversion kit costs...

Dale
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[clonebug]

My column and all my lighting is based on a 67 bug. I use the 9 pin relay box for emergency/turn signals along with the emergency switch.

I have a VW headlight relay Hi/Lo that works off the momentary ground button on the turn signal lever. You can see the part number on the relay.

I use an early column with a 67 turn signal indicator. It has a momentary ground button on the handle that will operate the VW headlight relay for hi/Lo headlights. I added that just a couple winters ago.
I had the dimmer switch on the firewall and two relays that operated the hi and lo beams. This relay really cleaned up some of my wiring nicely.

Of all the pics I have of my buggy I can't find one that is a close up of the turn signal indicator but have no fear.....I am just starting another tear down for my yearly winter upgrades so I'll try to get a pic for you in a day or so.

If you can find the Mexican Oil Filler/Alt stands they are a really nice piece. That is what I used for my alternator stand and I bought it brand new from I think CB Performance.....although I can't find it on their website now.
Get an Alternator from Car Craft Store.....They are reasonably priced

http://carcraftstore.com/alternators-all.aspx

Go to swap meets and you can find some parts that you need.
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[andk5591]

Keep in mind that the peripherals for a 1200 are different than a 1600, so your engines tins, intake, etc wont fit a 1600. And in general parts are more plentiful and cheaper for a 1600.

As much as I love the 1200 (big bore) in my 65 bug, I wont bother with a 1200 unless its a customer car and that is what they want.

You will probably need to buy a battery if messing with it as 6V. Do you REALLY want to spend the money on something that you may not use very long? At this point, until you really decide what you are doing with the engine, disconnect the voltage regulator dont turn on any lights or the wiper and put in a 12V coil. You can run the engine off a 12V battery for quite a while - just dont run it down too far before you charge it.
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[aluk]

So now that i actually have this buggy in my possesion, I have a little bit better idea of what I have. As far I can tell engine # denotes an early 1200. The pan, seat brackets, seat belts, speedo and fuse box all seem to belong to same donor bug. Engine from same era may or may not have been originally with pan. The engine doesnt seem to be as "unrebuildable" as previous owner told me. If I could get this running at a reasonable price, I would just run it like it is for awhile. If I decide to drop in a 1600, I know that there are a lot of huys out there that love these little 1200's. Is this engine and componants of value that could help finance a 1600?

[EVfun]

Seeing that you have a May 1957 engine it might well be time to upgrade. They are hard to convert to 12 volts because you cannot remove the generator stand. Parts cost more for those motors and someone restoring an oval might be willing to pay you for a running 36 horse, even for an intact and freely turning 36 horse. You motor looks pretty complete. Almost nothing on that motor will have a place on a later engine.

I would figure out what year your frame is and what transaxle you have. If you have the early split case transaxle that may influence your decisions. They will take a stock late model engine, but they are not as strong as the later full syncro box.

A basic buggy is very light so you have to decide what will make you happy. It will perform well even with later 1200 40 horse engine. A stock 1600cc duel port engine is common and will perform nicely in a car that may weigh as little as 1200 lb. What cars do you like driving now? It will give you some idea of what power to weight ratio you enjoy.
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[aluk]

Thank you for that information. I know this buggy sits on a 1963 pan. I will try to sort out what transaxle I have, next. and go from there. In the meanwhile I have plenty to clean and polish...

[EVfun]

You will have some year of tunnel type transaxle, the older and weaker split case transaxle was no longer used on Bugs sold in the USA after 1960. That is a good start. With the later gear box the questions now are axle length (for wheel selection purposes) and gear ratios (these influence tire and motor selection.)

My Buggy is built on a '64 frame, with a 40 horse gear box that has '67 long axles. You often find a lot of part swapping in Buggies.
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[Bermoco]

I see that you are in the Las Vegas area. Saw some vw motors advertised on craigslist. Some say you can hear it run before you buy.

I bought a used motor from a vw repair shop near me and was able to drive the car and test the engine. A customer from the shop wanted to put in a bigger motor and wanted to sell it. It is a dual port 1600 that runs well. Bought it for less than 500 and a core case I had.

It was a perfect starting point as the buggy I bought was a basket case project. Started with the stock carb and peashooter exhaust while I sorted out problems with the buggy. Now has dual carbs and Tri Mill exhaust and performs nicely.

That is what is great about this hobby. Buggy parts are still relatively inexpensive and you can upgrade over time.

If you have any friends into air cooled vw bugs you may be able to borrow an engine and install just to see if you have other problems with the buggy.
More than likely a used engine will be a 12 volt and you could just run a 12 volt battery to power the coil and carb choke/idle solenoid. If unsure about the buggy wiring you could wire battery ground to frame and run a 12 gauge wire from positive terminal to only the coil and carb and push start it. As andk5591 posted you really don't want to buy a six volt battery if you are going to upgrade to 12v.

Also your fuel tank will very likely have a bunch of debris in the tank. You don't want to pump that into a used, new or borrowed engine. I've used small outboard engine fuel tanks for test purposes. Make sure your brakes work as well before first powered trip.

Buggies can be put back together for a very reasonable price if you are patient and shop around. Your buggy looks like a very good starting point.

Have fun

[aluk]

[andk5591]

You cant really do much with the tank in the car. And this is a good time to go over the wiring anyway.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...