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SSWesty Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2008 Posts: 732 Location: Bellevue
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Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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It would be a hot ticket if a supplier could do a lithium in this form factor https://www.vmaxtanks.com/XTR34-75-12Volts-75AH-Deep-Cycle-XTREME-AGM-Battery_p_164.html which should fit under the drivers seat.
75ah should net around 60ah usable which would be a hot ticket for running a truckfrig for a couple days between charges. I am sure we'll get there, this century seems to be the century of the battery. |
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Tobias Duncan Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2013 Posts: 1391 Location: Taos NM
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Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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dlb154 wrote: |
Not to hijack the tread... but has anyone considered building their own lithium battery bank out of multiple 18650 batteries harvested from laptop battery packs?
I made a portable solar generator a few years back with a SLA battery and am now hoping to convert that battery to lithium battery bank of 18650s. My MPPT charge controller allows for user set charge settings so I should be able to set it up. |
I have been looking into this for a while but have not yet started getting the stuff together.
I was going to use a snap clip system that people were raving about last year but the kit turned out to be less than reliable.
I dont think there is any way around getting a spot welder and I would want a lot of practice before building a battery to go under the drivers seat.
Seems like the ideal way to get the max amount of amp hours under there. |
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dlb154 Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2006 Posts: 359 Location: Reno, NV
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Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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Not to hijack the tread... but has anyone considered building their own lithium battery bank out of multiple 18650 batteries harvested from laptop battery packs?
I made a portable solar generator a few years back with a SLA battery and am now hoping to convert that battery to lithium battery bank of 18650s. My MPPT charge controller allows for user set charge settings so I should be able to set it up. |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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I know its a great deal!
However - the deal breaker is no warranty as far as I can tell. A quality internal BMS can make or break a product. These should last more than 10 years. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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vanagonjr Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010 Posts: 3431 Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
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Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:33 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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Kirsche Wasserboxer wrote: |
I see that GoWesty is now offering a 50ah LiFePO4 battery.
https://www.gowesty.com/product/electrical/25082/lifepo_aux_battery?v=
It looks pretty close sizewise to the Battle Born I have under my driver's seat. It is quite a bit cheaper in cost, but I don't see any mention of the warranty terms, or specifics of the BMS, other than a low voltage cutoff. |
I looked at this and the price is essentially 1/2(!) of any other 12.8V, 50ah battery I can find on the web (with the exception of some Asian trade sites).
I love to hear a long term review, but I’m guessing it’s a new offering. _________________ John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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Kirsche Wasserboxer wrote: |
I see that GoWesty is now offering a 50ah LiFePO4 battery.
https://www.gowesty.com/product/electrical/25082/lifepo_aux_battery?v=
It looks pretty close sizewise to the Battle Born I have under my driver's seat. It is quite a bit cheaper in cost, but I don't see any mention of the warranty terms, or specifics of the BMS, other than a low voltage cutoff. |
That's not a bad. Plus only $33 shipping for me. This is a great solution for those who want just 50aH _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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Kirsche Wasserboxer Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2016 Posts: 104 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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I see that GoWesty is now offering a 50ah LiFePO4 battery.
https://www.gowesty.com/product/electrical/25082/lifepo_aux_battery?v=
It looks pretty close sizewise to the Battle Born I have under my driver's seat. It is quite a bit cheaper in cost, but I don't see any mention of the warranty terms, or specifics of the BMS, other than a low voltage cutoff. _________________ 1990 Westfalia Vanagon
2.1 Wasserboxer |
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izzydog Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005 Posts: 665
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Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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That multi-mode with the Charge Wizard is for lead-acid. Same with the other charger - not for lithium. I need a lithium charger. I have the 30A version with Charge Wizard now... |
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a2wolfsburggli Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2018 Posts: 279 Location: WI
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:15 am Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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izzydog wrote: |
I plan to use the Sterling DC to DC changer between the starter and house battery so overcharging is not an issue for me.
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Overcharging is kinda vague. The batteries' BMS probably has that ability to disable charging once its at 100%.
But yes, charging at a higher amperage/voltage is where the Sterling DC to DC changer comes of use. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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1.8T alternator = 120A output and usually around 14.1 - 14.4V
Btw.. All of my Battle Born notes in my previous post were from a phone converstation with Jesse. _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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izzydog Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005 Posts: 665
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Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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I've emailed back and forth with a guy named Jesse at Battleborn and he told me not to worry about my alternator unless its putting out more than 14.6 volts. I haven't measured my 1.8T alternator since I did my conversion more than a year ago. I'll check it soon but I can't imagine it's putting out more than that.
I plan to use the Sterling DC to DC changer between the starter and house battery so overcharging is not an issue for me.
BTW - you can find those Progressive Dynamics 110V chargers here for less with free shipping:
https://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/products/prog...wer-center
https://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/products/prog...wer-center
I think I'd go for the 45A since its only $10 more.
FYI - I have a 30A lead-acid Progressive Dynamics 110V charger (model 9130: https://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/products/prog-dyn-pd9130-charger ) that I'll sell when I get the lithium 45A version. I also have the Charge Wizard plug-in for that charger that regulates the various charge states. Nice 110V charger setup for lead-acid. PM if interested. |
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beach_creature Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2014 Posts: 532
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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Here are some notes I took during a phone conversation with Battle Born:
Battle Born - LiOn Battery 100Ah (29lbs 3yr warranty)
Charging requirements:
Bulk/absorption 14.2-14.6
Specific = 14.4
Float = 13.6 or less
No equalization charge!
30A charger from progressive dynamics
8.6”x7.25”x4.5” $201 p/n pd9130lv
Victron Blue Smart IP65 charger about $170 15A
Victron BMV-712 Smart battery monitor about $200
Sterling battery to battery charger 30A $293 or 60A $408 (faster)
1.8T Amperage of alternator = 120A
RV solonoid 3 pin isolator (not Blue Sea ACR) _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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You peaked my interested. Really just to see how pricing is holding up. I watched the Battle Born video below and learned that a higher charging rate shortens the life of the battery. I don't know if that would stop be from charging by alternator - but would be interesting if you could somehow control the charging rate. I feel like you either want it charged as fast as possible - or as slow as possible (1+ hour drives, etc)
Link
_________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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nice job! _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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ThankYouJerry Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2012 Posts: 2271 Location: Shakedown Street
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Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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2 Battle Born 100Ah auxiliary batteries in parallel. Takes up a little less than 1/2 the space under my Weekender’s bench seat. _________________ 1990 Multivan - "Ohana"
1.8T, Auto w/3.27 R&P + Peloquin TBD
Last edited by ThankYouJerry on Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:13 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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vwhammer Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006 Posts: 998 Location: Boulder CO.
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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Sorry.
Yes I see I failed to mention that the deep cycle batteries are AGM batteries.
You are correct. |
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Tobias Duncan Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2013 Posts: 1391 Location: Taos NM
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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I thought you had to go to AGM batteries to get 50% and that normal lead acid deep cycle batteries were 25%. |
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vwhammer Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2006 Posts: 998 Location: Boulder CO.
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Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Lithium Aux Battery |
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Yes.
Generally with standard lead acid you generally do not want to discharge more than 20%
Deep cycle batteries say they can do 80% but at that number the battery will not last long.
50% is a good number for deep cycle batteries.
Typically with most lithium batteries you can run them until they stop running things but generally an 80% dod is much better for battery longevity.
With that said, you would need two to four times as many lead acid batteries, depending on the type, to get the same capacity as a single lithium battery.
And the lithium will last at least twice as long if not 3 times as long.
You may see where I am going with this.
Short term, yes lithium is more expensive but in the long term you start to save with lithium.
I suppose I should also bring up that it will also be less than half the weight and size.
I have a 50 amp hour LiMnO2 battery that weighs 16lbs and is roughly the size of a sheet of paper and about 3 inches tall.
Lets just assume I use it to 100% dod.
A 60 amp hour deep cycle battery, which would net you about 50ah at 80% dod, takes up roughly the same footprint but is twice as tall and weighs 40 lbs.
Now realistically if you only did the recommended 50% dod on the deep cycle battery and I only did 80% dod on my battery you would still need and 80ah deep cycle battery that would weigh about 60lbs to equal my lithium battery.
A lot of this info is based on generic info I found on the nets about battery weight and size so your results may vary but probably not by much. |
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