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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2332 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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crazyvwvanman wrote: |
The one on the left is not one of the later spindles. That early spindle came manual only.
The one on the right has a much larger flat area where the hole is drilled for the tie rod end. The hole is drilled in a different place in that flat area depending on whether it is meant for power or manual. That one is drilled for power steering. A manual one would have the hole drilled closer to the end.
Mark |
Wow! This is interesting info.
When I installed the PS from the 86 Westy in my 84 Tin-top, I never drilled a new hole. I just installed it and never looked back. It works great with the PS pump that come on the ALH TDI engine. I did have to rebuild it due to a failed 30 something year old seal. The rebuild was almost three years ago with no leaks and works great. _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9939 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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I had 3 different 86 vans in my driveway that came manual steering. All of them were white.
Never even seen anything newer that came that way in the US market Vanagons.
Just about impossible to buy those parts though.
I wonder if these would help for relocating the holes?
https://vwparts.aircooled.net/Tie-Rod-Relocation-K...kit-pr.htm
Mark |
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D Clymer Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005 Posts: 2978 Location: Issaquah, WA
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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FWIW, there were a small number of late model Vanagons sold in the USA without power steering. Some of the Westfalia Weekenders (pop top, but no kitchen) had manual steering. Also, there was a Vanagon L sold in 1985 and 1986 (vinyl seats, chrome hubcaps), that came standard with manual steering. So the late model uprights for manual steering do exist in the USA, but they're very rare. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17155 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 4:13 am Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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A competent welder could fill the holes and new holes could be drilled further out from the spindle. The hole where the tie rod end attaches is tapered, so that would need to be solved. Not a deal breaker though. A reamer with the correct angle would work. _________________ ☮️ |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9939 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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The manual rack will work ok with the later PS steering stuff. Yes, a little harder to steer at low speeds.
The later radius rods need to go in with the later lower arms.
Mark |
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xstreamcanadian Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2012 Posts: 6 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada
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Posted: Sat May 23, 2020 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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I know this thread is old as hell. But Ill try anyway. I have this same option. I have no desire to add PS to my van. If I swap in spindles and CAs and brakes from a later t3 into my manual steering 84 with manual steering rack that works? just perhaps tougher to steer?
thanks |
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beach_creature Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2014 Posts: 532
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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ok. Thanks so much!
Looks like maybe it wouldn't be too much work to have a machine shop fill the whole and drill an new one closer to the outside. _________________ 84 Westy
1.9TD AAZ
5spd manual with Locking Peloquin TBD |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9939 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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The one on the left is not one of the later spindles. That early spindle came manual only.
The one on the right has a much larger flat area where the hole is drilled for the tie rod end. The hole is drilled in a different place in that flat area depending on whether it is meant for power or manual. That one is drilled for power steering. A manual one would have the hole drilled closer to the end.
Mark |
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beach_creature Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2014 Posts: 532
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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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Putting in a power steering rack, running lines, adding a pump can all be done. I guess it adds a little extra weight and I would lose a little HP as well.
Ill have a look at the spindles I picked up and see if they are for power steering or not. I dont recall what rack the vehicle had.
Is the power steering spindle the one on the left or the right in the photo?
Thanks. _________________ 84 Westy
1.9TD AAZ
5spd manual with Locking Peloquin TBD |
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AndyBees Samba Member
Joined: January 31, 2008 Posts: 2332 Location: Southeast Kentucky
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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For what it's worth, I installed the Power Steering Rack out of an '86 Westy (total wreck) into my '84 tin-top. I do not recall any problems at all. _________________ '84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. |
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levi Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 5522 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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Yes, here they are side by side.
Samba member jwpate bought a set of spindles and was sent one of each. _________________ One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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foodeater Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2007 Posts: 1318 Location: Newburgh, NY
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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beach_creature wrote: |
The spindles I was not worried about. Does the lower control arm, end links, and radius rod all match up as well?
I do not have power steering. I didnt know there was a difference in the spindles between ones with power steering and non-power steering?
So I either need to put in a power steering rack or find newer spindles that were not power steering? Does that exist? |
All of the suspension parts will bolt up.
I believe the power steering spindles and non-power steering spindles are cast from the same mold, but the positioning of the hole where the tie rod end bolts through is different. If I remember right using the power steering spindles without a power steering rack will increase the effort required to turn the wheel, so it will work, but be more difficult to turn the steering wheel. It would probably only be an issue at low speeds, like in parking lots...etc.
Non power steering late version spindles were made, but I don't think they were ever sold in the US, so you might want to search in Europe. _________________ 89 Bluestar-2.5 Subaru Powered-RIP
'84 Westy Tiico-daily driver-sold
'82 Caddy diesel-sold
'87 Vanagon Syncro-RIP
'81 diesel rabbit-sold
'82 Vanagon auto-RIP |
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beach_creature Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2014 Posts: 532
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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The spindles I was not worried about. Does the lower control arm, end links, and radius rod all match up as well?
I do not have power steering. I didnt know there was a difference in the spindles between ones with power steering and non-power steering?
So I either need to put in a power steering rack or find newer spindles that were not power steering? Does that exist? _________________ 84 Westy
1.9TD AAZ
5spd manual with Locking Peloquin TBD |
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levi Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 5522 Location: Las Vegas
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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Power steering spindles are different from non-power steering.
Might want to make sure that you get the right ones. _________________ One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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Bills85Westy Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2009 Posts: 423 Location: Napa CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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Yes, you can swap the newer front spindles onto your 84.
When installing the big brakes, you'll need to supply the 19mm bolts not included with the kit. I believe everything else is plug and play. _________________ 89 Tristar Syncro Doka - White
85 Westfalia Syncro (conversion)
SAH 1.8T Conversion - 2005 AWP
Engine Conversion Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612144&highlight=
85 Doka L345 Grey - 1.9L |
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beach_creature Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2014 Posts: 532
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:23 pm Post subject: Front Suspension Swap: 86-91 into an 84? Can this be done? |
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Hi.
I have an 84 Westy and was hoping to swap newer front spindles into my van, along with the newer brakes as well; in hopes of someday upgrading to bigger brakes.
I also picked up the front cast lower control arms from the same vehicle. I purchased new radius rods, and I am planning on purchasing new end links as well as all new urethane bushings.
Will the late model Vanagon front suspension swap directly into the early model? Or will there need to be any fabrication done to the brackets on the frame? Anyone done this?
Thanks. _________________ 84 Westy
1.9TD AAZ
5spd manual with Locking Peloquin TBD |
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