My 4 seater.

[_Redline_]

Hey guys and gals. New guy here, well not really. I have been lurking on and off for better than 10 years now, but now I have a reason to start posting. About 10 years ago my dad passed away and my cousin bought dads last buggy and took it out of state. Fast forward 10 years and I just got the buggy delivered to me (back home where it belongs). There is a few problems with this, one very little has been maintained over the last decade and two, a bit of damage has happened as well. Now I'm positive I over paid, but it was sentimental to me and need to back in my garage so, it is what it is.
This will end up being a several year build as I am just a regular guy with a regular job, I don't have tons of extra money to throw at this.
I'm thinking it needs to be tore down to the frame inspected, cleaned up and repainted and the build will begin from there. I believe I have a good grasp on all that needs to be done and there are tons and tons of ideas and helpful posts on here. The very first problem I have is, what motor am I going to put back on this thing. Dad had a Buick odd fire 3.8 on it. That motor is toast, the only thing left of it is the adapter plate, pressure plate and clutch everything else is junk.
This is where I get confused, there are so, so many choices out there to use and not really anyone is saying that any one particular motor is the best at this. If dad had used a newer 3.8ltr I would be all about it, but the early model 3.8s are something like 450lbs fully dressed. It is also abit lower on the rpm range than what I would like. In a perfect world I would like a aluminum block 4 or 6 cylinder with 150 HP give or take a few HP, Some thing natural aspirated and can get parts easily. I'm thinking probably liquid cooled I really want a turn key low maintenance motor. I'm not interested in any thing turbo charged and again I'm just a regular guy so I will be doing this on a budget. I figure if I start looking for the motor now, I will be able to pick and choose the good deals from the rushed deals. So what say you what motor would you go with if you were doing it all over again?

[dustymojave]

EZ answer is to go to a wrecking yard and get another 3.8. If it were mine, I'd get far away from GM V6s. Not my choice of engine for a buggy, but as you said...it is what it is. Unless you're ready to start over from the ground up engine-wise.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[_Redline_]

Dusty thanks for the reply. I'm not opposed to hitting a junk yard and getting the thing going down the trail/rd sooner than later, however like you a Chevy v6 is not my end game. Its a fine way to play with it while I collect what I need to make it something else. The question is what should that something else be?

[dustymojave]

Ecotecs are popular. Like the 3.8 V6, it makes a whole lot more power than a Bug 1600. So it needs a stronger gearbox. Type 2 (VW Bus) 091 or 094 (late 70s-early 80s) gearbox is a start, but still not enough if you get rowdy with the right pedal.

Adapter kit costs about the same for most engines. Kennedy Engineered Products in Palmdale California is the best source for the adapters for most any engine swap into a VW. The electronics for the Ecotec are the most expensive part. Same is true for most any late model engine. Most folks will tell you that the Ecotec will cost only about $300 at a wrecking yard. But then I've watched several of those blow up right away. And the cost to install is still very expensive. If you're good with the computer management and wiring, then you can do it all yourself and save a ton.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[_Redline_]

Well after some horse trading I have came up with a VW motor to build, its ugly but buildable. Looking forward to the Lansing buggy show with a grocery list of parts to find.
Can anyone ID this frame? I have looked and looked on line to find out how to tell the difference between a White hill and a Appletree frame but I'm having no luck, any info would be great. I'm wanting to buy the tree bars for it and to find the rear engine enclosure.

[pullstart]

Hey Redline, I have a (what I believe) stock Appletree 4 seater frame. It looks like your rear cage has been extended to fit the longer engine so finding a lower engine cage might be building one instead. Along with the tree bars, I'm not sure how bolt on friendly those are... It might require fabrication instead.

Here's a link to the start of my build for any reference you need with the frame ID. I'm not sure how close to GR you might be since you mentioned the Lansing show, but if you need to take measurements of my buggy we can arrange that.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.

my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0

[_Redline_]

Thanks Pullstart, that's a good looking machine. But our frames are very different. I'm sure the tree bars will be a weld on set up but I'm hoping that they can be bought pre bent to fit my frame, I'm also hoping that I can find a rear engine cage. Its true my frame was cut but not extended, as my dad was the one who cut it, but as you can see above he is no longer with us to ask these questions.

[_Redline_]

All Right!! Good News, I was finally able to find enough pictures on the web to figure out what frame I have. Its a Berrien Classic 4105 with the optional grab bars installed. Best part is, it appears that Berrien still sell the rail parts I'm looking for.

[pullstart]

Cool deal!
_________________
4 seater Appletree buggy, road legal with 002 IRS, 3x3 Appletree kit, 6" over Dan's beam with 10" towers and Fox 2.0 shocks, '00 Subaru EJ25 with KEP stage 3 clutch and KEP adapter plate.

my build page: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=662104&start=0

[_Redline_]

So I have been able to do some rip and tearing. The location of the buggy is about a hour away from where I live, so its only a day here and there that I'm able to get any work done.
How it sits now.

The poor suspension problem, someone installed the incorrect endcap allowing the torson bar and rubber bushings to slip out of the holders about 1/4 to 3/8" crushing the rubbers and rubbing through the metal collar.

The housing it self looks fine.

Also a pic of its new to me transplant. A 1835 with a single weber 44.

The Lansing buggy show is in two weeks so I'm making my list and checking it twice.
If you gurus see anything of concern please speak up.

[cbeck]

Here is my .02$. Nice looking set up in the background. Maybe you should look for a discounted bender at the show. I bet you would use it more than once. Use it to generate some funds bending stuff for friends. Lite bars, sliders, ect. Are you sure the frame hasn't been extended? Have some measurements and be sure the bottom tubes of bumpers you look at are long enough. The flanges are a weak spot. Look at page 1 of my build to see failed flanges. I am going to try to fit a sleeve in the bottom bar of my cage and have it extend a short distance past the upper flange into the tubing to reinforce the flange. Next, the top rear of the nerf bar seems to be behind the cross bar. Would be much stronger if it met that cross bar. Much luck and will keep following your progress.

[dustymojave]

[_Redline_]

[Axitech]

Redline,
Do you have any info on the wiper unit? I need to find a workable replacement for the one I have (that really doesn't do the job).
_________________
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36


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[_Redline_]

[_Redline_]

Is there anyone who might be able to do a couple of photo shops for me? I'm trying to decide my color combo. I'm going with a simple Black and Red. Red was dads favorite color and black is a good secondary color, I do not want it all red. So what I'm looking for is a simple Black body/Red rail and a Red body/Black rail. I am open to other suggestions, I just figure that color combo is very easy to accent through out the buggy. The tan top will be diamond plate as well.

[_Redline_]

So question,
I'm having trouble figuring how to support my front seat backs so that there is a cross bar about shoulder height. I don't want my seatbelts to compress the spine in case of a accident. The seats need to be offset like they are in order to fit our current body sizes. I don't want to move the passenger seat back any farther because there wont be any space in the back for the 3rd seat. The rough tote is to mock a box I'm building for the other side to carry tools and such. So this will be a 3 seater buggy as shown. Any Ideas?

[dustymojave]

I suggest a vertical 'B' pillar of the cage to mount a cross bar for shoulder belts. The 'B' pillar needs to be far enough back to not be a head knocker. The 'B' pillars can be set even and the shoulder bar be square to the centerline of the car. It will still work fine for the shoulder belts for both front seats, even though the seats are off set.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[_Redline_]

[dustymojave]

Yes the new B pillar would make direct side access to the rear seat tight. There IS access above and to the right behind the existing B pillar. Again, it's tight and not for your mother in law to climb in. If the back seat will be used by kids, they'll think it's fun.

Another option is to make a shoulder bar which is welded to the upper side (elbow) rail, I would connect it on top of where the supports meet underneath the rail. Then angle back and up to behind the shoulders of the seats and across. Then a vertical support from the top rail to under the new shoulder bar right at the bend.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.