Author |
Message |
BaruchYahHallelu Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2022 Posts: 21 Location: Everywhere
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:37 pm Post subject: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
I need help with my rebuilt engine on a 1984 1.9-
I have
•replaced the piston and cylinders with big bore slip ins
•replaced lifters
•cleaned heads and what was reachable by hand in the water body area
•re-did all the fuel lines
•replaced some electrical
•replaced spark plugs and wires
•I DID check and triple check that my rockers were properly set to match timing
•and other small stuff
I have checked off on fuel getting to the injectors, proper spark connection and sparking at the plugs, timing on diz proportionate to TDC on proper cylinders, and slid the diz to various spots of advance/ret, as well as opened the intake tune up screws to allow more air flow for break in startup. I did have the rockers set to 2 spins or whatever the green book says, but I set it to zero lash when I read another thread, which did seem to get a better sound from the engine
When I try to start, it sounds like it’s puffing and turning, and wants to start, even with a little combustion sometimes, but no start- and I can’t try it too much because I don’t want to wear the rings before they can be properly seated, as well as the whole gas in the cylinder thing that happens every time you turn the key.
My biggest question is I’ve heard of tuning “all in” for a rebuild, but no one ever explains how to go “all in,” so I’ve tried but the only thing I end up is ‘all in’ oil and another day of not being good enough.
I’ve been doing a lot of research with no help and I really don’t want to drop the ball, I mean engine, again.
Last edited by BaruchYahHallelu on Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4697 Location: Bemidji, MN
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
BaruchYahHallelu wrote: |
timing on diz proportionate to TDC on proper cylinders |
might just be semantics but timing is only set to cyl 1, not plural. your wording opens the possibility maybe you did it differently. dunno. _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3079 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
Well what you DO have going for you is that your account is almost a year old and your post is coherent. These days I'm always skeptical of first HELP posts...seems most don't bother to come back on line again to check in or update. If you post, you will get all the help you need to get this straightened out. Engines are ultimately simple.
Q1 - Did THIS van and did THIS engine run before the rebuild? _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BaruchYahHallelu Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2022 Posts: 21 Location: Everywhere
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
Sorry, I bad with lingo words, but yes, it is set how it is supposed to. IE set to TDC, cylinder 1 being out all the way, to me I’m talking about the alignment that comes with the first cylinder being aligned properly with the distributor, which in turn also assures the rest are properly going to fire at the right time (aside from ret/adv function) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BaruchYahHallelu Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2022 Posts: 21 Location: Everywhere
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
Yes, the van ran before but I was having water gasket leaks, so I decided to change it, but broke a ring in the process. the whole thing just needed a look at in general because it was obvious that it was only given minimal engine maintenance before I bought it in 2020 Nov |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TomInAlaska Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2007 Posts: 385 Location: Anchorage, Ak
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
You could have the distributor wired 180* out. I know I've done that in the past. _________________ '73 Super Beetle (resto-mod/rally look, 1776)
'84 GL adventure van project (1.9L, 4speed) https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=755844&highlight= |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BaruchYahHallelu Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2022 Posts: 21 Location: Everywhere
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
TomInAlaska wrote: |
You could have the distributor wired 180* out. I know I've done that in the past. |
I read up on that, I don’t believe I do, it’s bottom right at TDC with cylinder 1 all the way out. I poked a screw driver in the hole to make sure it was accurate, though I know the only way to really check is to see if intake rocker piece is opened at cylinder 1 too. Which is hard right now because the oil in the head pan next to rocker just flows on out when I open it and I don’t have any more break in oil to put in rn if I drop low |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Vanagon Nut Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008 Posts: 10333 Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
If it's not a timing issue....
I'd pull the plugs and check compression.
My hunch is that valve lash is set too tight, valves aren't closing fully.
Neil.
BaruchYahHallelu wrote: |
I need help with my rebuilt engine on a 1984 1.9-
.... I did have the rockers set to 2 spins or whatever the green book says, but I set it to zero lash when I read another thread, which did seem to get a better sound from the engine
When I try to start, it sounds like it’s puffing and turning, and wants to start, even with a little combustion sometimes, but no start-
|
_________________ 1981 Westy, 15º ABA
1988 West, 50º ABA
Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh
VE7TBN |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BaruchYahHallelu Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2022 Posts: 21 Location: Everywhere
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
Is there a way to do that without a compression tool. Money and the ability to drive myself there rn are limiting factors. Btw that sounds like a possibility. I’m on 1% so I’ll get back when to yall |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TomInAlaska Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2007 Posts: 385 Location: Anchorage, Ak
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
BaruchYahHallelu wrote: |
TomInAlaska wrote: |
You could have the distributor wired 180* out. I know I've done that in the past. |
I read up on that, I don’t believe I do, it’s bottom right at TDC with cylinder 1 all the way out. ... |
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I wouldn't put 100% trust in the distributor wiring diagrams. The distributor drive might not have been installed in the block per the factory specifications and so TDC on #1 could be anywhere. Mine certainly isn't wired according to any factory diagrams. And yes, the only way to see if any particular piston is as TDC on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke is to watch the rocker arms. Anyway, I'm just throwing out the possibility since I chased down a similar spitting/sputtering/non starting issue last year when I replaced my distributor without first making a note of where the plug wires were plugged. _________________ '73 Super Beetle (resto-mod/rally look, 1776)
'84 GL adventure van project (1.9L, 4speed) https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=755844&highlight= |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bobbyblack Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2015 Posts: 4317 Location: United States, Iowa
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
Hmm... I had a kid who was working on his bus ask me for help once... I took a look and pulled several and put the wires on as such:
1-4-3-2
Bingo. _________________ '87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DanHoug Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016 Posts: 4697 Location: Bemidji, MN
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
ok, backing up a bit and going over some basics....
- did the distributor come out in this refurb?
- if it did come out, did you remove the clamp down nut and pull it off the stud or did you loosen the clamp band that allows timing adjustment? _________________ -dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com
Last edited by DanHoug on Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
outcaststudios Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2015 Posts: 1726 Location: Maine
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
BaruchYahHallelu wrote: |
Is there a way to do that without a compression tool. Money and the ability to drive myself there rn are limiting factors. Btw that sounds like a possibility. I’m on 1% so I’ll get back when to yall |
_________________ '88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3079 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
Compression tester and other diagnostic tools availe as loaners from FLAPS. _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
|
Back to top |
|
|
do.dah Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 423 Location: Washington
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
BaruchYahHallelu wrote: |
TomInAlaska wrote: |
You could have the distributor wired 180* out. I know I've done that in the past. |
I read up on that, I don’t believe I do, it’s bottom right at TDC with cylinder 1 all the way out. I poked a screw driver in the hole to make sure it was accurate, though I know the only way to really check is to see if intake rocker piece is opened at cylinder 1 too. Which is hard right now because the oil in the head pan next to rocker just flows on out when I open it and I don’t have any more break in oil to put in rn if I drop low |
I put my finger over the #1 sparkplug hole and hand crank until my finger is blown away from the hole, that'll tell ya if you are actually at TDC and not 180 degrees out. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
atomatom Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012 Posts: 1867 Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
don't forget the other simple "doh" moments, like
* AFM wire not plugged in
* big hose not connected somewhere on the engine
* little hose not connected, like that cursed 90o elbow to the aux air regulator (hidden under the bigger hoses)
i've done all those, *AND MORE*... _________________ 84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
do.dah Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 423 Location: Washington
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
vanis13 wrote: |
Compression tester and other diagnostic tools availe as loaners from FLAPS. |
Is the OP in the USA? Other countries my not have loaners. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JEL91Westy Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2020 Posts: 211 Location: Central PA
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
As someone that just went through almost exactly what you are describing, and after getting great advice here and from a local mechanic, I would try advancing the timing by turning the distributor 1/2” counter clockwise and seeing if it fires. That ended up being all it took in my case after going down several other roads. This is quick and easy and you should not have to crank much if it is going to go.
Good luck. _________________ 91 Westy
85 911 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3079 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
do.dah wrote: |
vanis13 wrote: |
Compression tester and other diagnostic tools availe as loaners from FLAPS. |
Is the OP in the USA? Other countries my not have loaners. |
well since OP locates themselves EVERYWHERE, that includes the USA including right next to the tool loaner department
...Curious though, maybe other countries have even grander DIY help like stocked DIY shops with lifts _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BaruchYahHallelu Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2022 Posts: 21 Location: Everywhere
|
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: HELP! Rebuilt engine problems |
|
|
DanHoug wrote: |
ok, backing up a bit and going over some basics....
- did the distributor come out in this refurb?
- if it did come out, did you loosen the clamp down nut and pull it off the stud or did you loosen the clamp band that allows timing adjustment? |
Yes, I took the whole distributor out including the drive shaft looking thing that goes into the case when I dropped the engine and was trying by to make sure everything was tip top clean. I did put it back correct (15-20 degree to nuts, slides in at 15 and curves to 20 if you do it Right.) and triple checked that distributor was properly set and not at 180.
Thanks everyone else for your comments, I know it may be something simple, but I have checked and triple checked grounds, ignition system (including spark wires and proper order), fuel pump (but not spray from injectors), as well as I just went and borrowed a compression tester, and my compressions stay, but vary as follows
1-110psi
2-125psi
3-110psi
4-110psi
My guess is valves with variance, since they are set at zero lash right now (back all the way out then made to touch the valve spring tips ever so gently). I assume that that should not be the problem. Could the intake valve and exhaust valve be closed too much in this case?
I will have to check on lifter timings in conjunction with distributor now. I’ve checked many wires and tubes for various things over and over, and I know I’ve plugged everything up, but I will also check for spark on all wires and plugs to make sure maybe some are not firing or something. I did put new spark plugs in so I may also put the old ones to make sure, since it worked before everything.
FYI you all, I took on this project because I wanted to make sure I learn about the Vanagon thoroughly before I hit the road for an unspecified amount of time. The engine could have gone without some of the things I did, but I didn’t do them I would never know how to do it until it was too late. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|