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Three56SC Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2013 Posts: 12 Location: San Pedro, CA
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:51 pm Post subject: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector aka Super Cool tins |
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I have a set of the 'tropical' air deflectors that go under the cylinders. These are more of a wrap-around style rather than the flat deflector that's usually found.
Any thoughts on using them? I'm building a relatively stock motor with 92mm barrels, mild Engle cam and not sure which carburetor(s) yet.
Thanks! |
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USMCbug Samba Yoda
Joined: April 29, 2004 Posts: 2573 Location: Wichita, KS
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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I used them on a 1641 I did for one of my old bugs. I thought they worked well. I would recommend that you safety wire them to the cylinder studs as I think mine came lose once. _________________ 72 Super Beetle
73 Standard Beetle
79 Baywindow Bus
65 Split Window Bus
79 Baywindow Bus
71 Super Beetle (current)
"When war does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the
scabbard."
- General Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson |
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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X2 on the safety wire-
I use them every chance I get. _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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FeelthySanchez Samba Member
Joined: February 03, 2011 Posts: 1349 Location: Now is that a real poncho, or a Sears poncho?
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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Correct, they do work fine.
Seem to recall (from long ago) that they're possibly native to a T3?
Anyway, I ended up using some common 8" long tension springs to keep them tightly in place on my 2074 (2 springs on each side). _________________
modok wrote: |
I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing. |
Ryan Tucker wrote: |
Enough clue..Whats that mean? |
OldIronSpine wrote: |
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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never heard of the tropickel kind. sound sort of like the type 3 kind that I use. Ive never had to safty wire them.But there are 2 diferent ones...one set for 10mm stud and 1 set for 8mm studs.although you dont usualy see the size listed.So.... I custom fit them so they fit the way I want them to. also they may need trimming and bending on the sections that are bent up that the air escapes through as they may contact the cylinder fins and hold them off the studs. i like to bend them slightly. I also seal them to the upper cylinder tins so they get as much air floe as possiable. I also run them up closer to the head. |
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Aussiebug Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2002 Posts: 2162 Location: Adelaide Australia
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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They are often called "cool tins". Yes, originally used on T3 VWs with their more convaluted air path.
They do several things.
1. They have "ears" which cup the exhaust valve area for better cooling there.
2. They cup the underside of the cylinders, forcing the cooling air through the underside cylinder finning. The flat deflector plates under the cylinders are removed when fitting cool tins. They actually reduce air flow around the cylinders slightly but use it better. That means...
3. Slightly higher air pressure in the fan shroud so airflow through the HEAD finning is increased, for better cooling there. The small flat deflectors under the heads are still used, so that cooling air is directed through the head underside finning. _________________ Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31378 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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Aussiebug wrote: |
They are often called "cool tins". Yes, originally used on T3 VWs with their more convoluted air path. through the head underside finning. |
I have the cool tins on my 1835cc engine. I guess I saw an article on them in Hot VWs in the 1980s. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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volksworld Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2011 Posts: 2529 Location: formerly NY currently NC
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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and like just about everything else, the original t3 ones fit and stay in place and the aftermarket copies fall off....you also cannot use the original sleds and small rear pieces with these as they are indented closer to the jugs than the cool tin...i've welded tabs to them to bolt to the cylinder covers but a spring should work |
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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And T-4 copied them on their production engines- proof in the pudding. _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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Three56SC Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2013 Posts: 12 Location: San Pedro, CA
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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Thanks for the replies. My old boss, Ludwig, straight from the Fatherland, called them tropical tins as I presume they were used in markets where it was typically very hot. At any rate, I've had these around for at lest a couple of decades - maybe three, so I will use them. Seems like the one on the 1-2 side interferes with the nuts on case thru bolts, so it will need bit of trimming. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76937 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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Type 3 "cool tins" were never used on a Type 1 from the factory. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Three56SC Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2013 Posts: 12 Location: San Pedro, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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Glen - I have never seen them used on a type 1 either, but was looking for feedback on the relative merits of using them. Great, not necessary or detrimental ... |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12467
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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They interfere with the type 1 cooling tins, a solution in search of a problem. If they did anything measurable why didn't VW adopt them into type1 production? It would have been cheaper to use one part across model lines. The whole myth was a marketing ploy to sell parts, that's it. Show me the proof they do anything over and above the type 1 parts. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26787 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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Yes they are type-3 tins. Quite fortunate you can still buy them, for some reason.
It might be useful to incorporate them into upright cooling tin, but as said they don't actually fit, they interfere with the sleds and small lower tin that normally bolts under the cylinder tins.
They could be made to fit, and would provide some additional support at least, which is needed. While the majority of folks here are all about the original tins.....seems to me the reason they are often missing is because they fell off. I left a few on the road myself.
Not very sturdy and prone to vibrating the bolts loose. |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76937 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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"Cool Tins" were originally pushed by Johnny's Speed and Chrome back in the 80's. They are Type 3 lower tins and all the ones you see are aftermarket. They were never used by the factory on a Type 1 upright engine.
It's just marketing BS, just like the Freeway Flyer and the 009 (and now SVDA). _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9147 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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I use them on my 2332s as I can't fit sled tins under the cylinders with my 1 3/4 and 1 7/8 merged headers. I also extended the head tins down an inch to cover the gap between the head tin and cool tin so air is forced all the way around the cylinders before venting out the bottom. Both my cars are open at the rear so have no other tins.
brad |
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Zundfolge1432 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004 Posts: 12467
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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Still no hard numbers just hype and bullshit. It's fun to reinvent the wheel. Common sense if they could have made one part work across product lines you would have seen this done from the factory. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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as I recall there is a left&right...for case nut clearance... or trim, or bend.I think the last 2 sets i got were the same and i had to trim,bend for clearance just a little on one moter and the other motor I had them up/out farther. also the size of your nuts may or may not chafe them. as with everything vw the nay sayers usualy dont have a clue and are too cheep to buy better parts and reuse crap that is all bent up and dosent work as good..... or they just read too much internet bas and beleave everything because they dont have a brain to use of their own and wouldent know if it was right or left or rong or wright. or even what they do or dont do or why they should be utilized or how.... but since Ive now read this info on the innerwebbs of thier cobwebed mind Im wondering how my thinwall slipin 90.5's have even worked for 10 miles....much less than the 80000 miles on them...must of been the majick dust&rust from berg. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26787 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
Common sense if they could have made one part work across product lines you would have seen this done from the factory. |
NOPE.
If they can use a cheaper part they will. It's "common sense"
If they can leave it of they will.
Excess is waste.
One for all is communism.
Great idea, sorry it didn't work out. |
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glutamodo The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004 Posts: 26320 Location: Douglas, WY
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:20 am Post subject: Re: Tropical Cylinder Air Deflector |
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I'm more with zundfogle on this one. I understand the "as cheap as possible" mentality, but...
To me, VW designed them to go with the unique airflow of the type 3 engine and it's crank mounted fan and associated ductwork. VW never put them on the type 1, this despite efforts to improve the cooling system starting with the doghouse oil cooler with the advent of 1300 and 1600 dual port engines, and later the venturi ring on the shroud when the lean-and-hot-running EFI engine came around. If at any time they would have wanted to apply a better, more effective cooling item, which they designed and was already in their system, to assist the Type 1 cooling, it would have been for the fuel injection engine, and they did not.
That's enough for me, I'll leave the hype behind and stay with what VW intended.
and re: type 4, it's more like type 3 than type 1, so I call out "apples and oranges" on that argument as well. _________________ Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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