Silencing your Webasto / Espar Heater

[TSellers2]

Spent a couple of days trying various tweaks: increasing the fuel pump angle, reseating the fuel line butt connections, etc. I started going again through the links provided by erste, and there was one that caught my eye, he described how the silencer in the exhaust line was a problem that took them forever to diagnose. I then realized why I could keep my system from having a flame out by blowing forced air into the intake. I wasn't turbo charging the combustion as I had wrongly assumed, I was pressurizing my exhaust flow and just enabling the exhaust to be able to flow out. So I removed the silencer and it looked like the clogged heart arteries of someone who ate hydrogenated palm kernel oil their whole life. The silencer, which was on the end of my pipe at the back of the van under the bumper, was plugged full of soft black soot. All that white smoke had really made a mess of the system. So I fired it up on kerosene, it has been running for about 3 hours now. I plan to leave it going all night in the hopes it will still be running in the morning, and that it may get cleaned out in the process.

I think I will leave the silencer off permanently. Instead, I have an extra meter long piece of SS exhaust pipe, so I may try plugging it into the silicone pipe that I have as the final section of my exhaust that ends just under the bumper when I park - thus having an extension that will terminate almost 3' from the van. If that becomes impracticable, then I'll have to come up with something else.

Thanks again for the resources, fingers crossed, it seems to have made the difference in the end (the end right now being a project that I'm now 11 months into)!

[TSellers2]

Thanks for that.

I went out a few minutes ago and switched it to the diesel tank and it has fired up with no smoking, but the probable outcome will be flame-out if the past is anything to go by.

I did observe the fuel pump angle, which is probably about 25 degrees to the north. I did similar maintenance to what you describe to the first heater unit, then I got a second one. My instructions indicated I could mount the heater on a vertical wall, so I turned it 90 degrees with the glow plug still at the top of the chamber. The Chinese seller felt that this was my problem, but that did not make sense. THe only advantage to mounting flat would seem to be if you overcharge the chamber with fuel and flood it, it pours out the ports easier. Nevertheless, when the second one arrived, I tried some tests with mounting it both ways, and neither aspect was better than the other, so I remounted as original because my van does not offer a great place where I can mount it flat.

Given that both my units were new I would not have suspected the blower fan, but now that you have brought it up, I seem to have had some better luck forcing ignition by blowing air into the intake when it is smoking, so perhaps that would be worth further investigation. Even though both mine were new, it would not be beyond reason that as both were from the same seller, they both could have been assembled originally with the same flaw. And because one of them is not installed, it should be an easy thing for me to measure the clearance in it as per your picture. For now I'll assume that the Chinese units are pretty close counterfeits of the Espar, and perhaps become suspicious if I also find a gap larger than .012. Thanks for the Pic, that will be very helpful. Finding that spare heater will be easy, trying to find my feeler gauges may be more of a challenge!

Thanks for the tip, I'm going to follow that up. Now to head back outside and see if it's flamed out already....

[erste]

Tsellers2,
Hope it helps! I'm interested in the china unit you have and how compatible it is with the Espar stuff. Really curious if you can wire up an Espar controller to it and pull codes.

That's the most comprehensive Espar info / troubleshooting site I could find. Lots of good info, but it's a little difficult to navigate. Notice that on the bottom of the page there's a "Next Page" link.

If your heater starts without smoking, this probably won't help you, but it might given the tolerances of your china heater (a generalization based on the assumption that they've cut costs somewhere). I bought a used D2 that was in service in a semi truck for a lot of years. It was pretty coked up so I cleaned it out, but it still smoked. Tried running it on kerosene and that was a little bit better, but one night it shut down, threw a code, and wouldn't run reliably again. When it did run, it just belched white smoke.

First I replaced the atomizer screen and scotch brite'd the glow plug. That helped, but not not for long.

Then I replaced the air chamber which has an internal screen that's impossible to clean and that helped too. Started right up and burned like it should, but after a short time it started smoking again (!). I checked everything. Tried it with and without the high altitude kit wired up, tested the fuel flow, replaced the glow plug, replaced the overheat sensor. Nothing worked. It was incredibly frustrating and if I was to follow the Espar troubleshooting guide, the next step would have been "replace ECU", which is $600... !

I was resigned to take it into an Espar dealer / service center and have them look at it, but came across a bit of info buried on that site and found something else to check.

Turns out the "blower-fan-impeller-thing" had pushed itself back off the shaft and was out of spec so the air / fuel mix was off and that's why it wouldn't stay lit and just blew white smoke.

Mine measured like .25" instead .012 where it was supposed to be. Tapping it back in spec solved my smoking issue, and the heater has worked flawlessly and reliably ever since.

My van is diesel. At first I had it tied into the fuel supply, post filter. Then I tried it pre filter, right at the tank, but still had smoking issues. I ended up mounting a small external reservoir behind the rear passenger wheel to isolate any fueling issues. I can reach in the wheel well and fill the reservoir up at the fuel pump, but I've mainly been filling it with kerosene and will probably keep it this way. I run biodiesel when I can, and that's not a recommended fuel for the D2.

Here's a link to the Espar Installation Manual that might also help:
https://www.butlertechnik.com/downloads/Eberspacher_Airtronic_D2_Technical_Manual.pdf

The fuel supply info on page 24 might also help. Biggest take away is that the pump should be mounted at an angle.

I installed a LP gas / CO monitor but with it hard wired to the aux. battery it beeps when it's under 12v, which is really annoying so I pulled the fuse Needless to say I don't run the heater while sleeping.

[TSellers2]

Thanks erste!

I just got home from work and opened both those links, and already they look awesome. Especially since I am probably the same age as 'Roy', and as I have been doing this 10 months, I feel I also have discovered a lot about these things worth sharing down the road. Maybe I can create a Chinese specific flavor of Roy's site if I have any luck.

For example, something I've been doing that I have not seen elsewhere they can help start a heater is forcing air into the intake at just the right time with an air mattress inflation fan, sort of in the same way the turbo on your diesel engine works. To that end I've wondered if perhaps camping at altitude could be enhanced by building a little micro fan into the air intake. Anyway, I guess I'm getting ahead of myself as I don't even have it working properly yet.

Once I have a chance to go through those pages I'll report back if they can also help with the Chinese heaters. Keep in mind if you install one, make sure you get a Chinese carbon monoxide detector, they are the only ones that can detect Chinese carbon monoxide after all ....

[erste]

[TSellers2]

Thanks Dan,

I'm still having some problems with my heater install, but hope I can get it figured out. Last night it ran for perhaps 6 hours on Kerosene, and then stopped. I am getting the impression that I may be having problems with my fuel feed, so I may try another fuel pump when I get the spare.

It has been 10 months and I now have lots of experience with these. I even bought another one when I suspected the first might be faulty (the Chinese seller actually refunded me for the first, which was amazing). A few weeks ago I had it run all night on diesel at 7200' elevation with no issues. I have learned a lot about installing these, so probably I will make a Youtube instruction video when I'm done.

So for now I'll have to reserve judgement. I have seen that lots of users experience the same problems with belching white smoke as I often have. It still could be due to an install issue so I don't want to pass judgement. In theory you could get the core unit and the necessary parts for about $300.00, and then spend some more on a better exhaust and air intake system.

So I'll update here when I can make something up, which I will endeavor to do this coming week.

[DanHoug]

TSellers2- what do you think of the Chinese Espar clone overall? if one mods the intake and exhaust materials, does it seem like a decent unit then?

i've been happy enough with the Mr Heater Buddy that it has kept me from getting one but i think about it.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[TSellers2]

Almost a year to the day since the last post, and time to revisit the heaters theme. I've been struggling with an install for a Chinese Espar clone for the last 10 months in my Delica van. I have learnt a lot along the way.* I really like the idea of replacing the generic air intake silencer with something like this PVC idea, using perhaps carbon felt instead of foam. It's nice that a Sched 40 1/2" PVC elbow is a snug fit over the air intake of these heaters, making this a great idea.

Another item that may have some use, I grabbed some of the 2' sections of flexible PCV pipe when it was on sale in Home Depot last week. As it is mainly used for irrigation now is the time to get it cheap. This will allow you to easily route your air intake lines to a convenient location as far away as possible from the exhaust.

* If I did another install, I would not use the supplied kit items such as the air intake silencer, the cheap exhaust muffler, the cardboard air ducting, and the exhaust pipe. I'd probably get a muffler shop to run a proper exhaust, and I'd use silicon pipe for warm air and PVC for cold air flow. Also, as you want to sometimes run Kerosene to clean the system, I'd recommend not T'ing into your fuel line (for diesel vehicles obviously) a separate fuel tank that is T'd with shutoff valves that would allow you to switch tank feed lines. I also have found that the more expensive higher Cetane value diesel runs better in the heater than the regular diesel that I add lubricity agent to, which apparently the heaters do not like.

Thanks to the original poster for starting this thread - and to those that have contributed!

[Multiman mv]

[OddN]

[erste]

I'm using this webasto intake silencer with the espar d2:
http://www.heatso.com/webasto-combustion-air-intake-silencer/

I took it off with the heater running and was really surprised at how much difference it makes.

[davevickery]

[Multiman mv]

You are probably already aware of this unit. Just in case you aren't, they sell this muffler for the inlet of a espar (they also sell a muffler for the exhaust end.) the muffler makes a significant difference in noise level.

With that said, my espar is only loud for the initial startup phase, after about 3-4 minutes it runs extremely quietly but still pumps the heat.

[davevickery]

Well I guess it is that time of year to talk about heaters.

I have my fuel pump surrounded in a short piece of coolant hose. There is some mention of heat given off by the pump. I hope I didn't break another install rule with that but so far it doesn't seem to be causing any issues.

[dhaavers]

That's what you just said...(back in 2016)...



- Dave

PS: Great idea!
_________________
86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

[snwbrdr435]

[hogan029]

Has anyone thought of some kind of enclosure or chamber for the fuel pump to sit in to silence it?

[snwbrdr435]

When I first installed my espar the fuel pump was ungodly loud, so loud that it sounded like someone was underneath knocking on the van. I had some extra strips of rubber from some truck mudlflaps. I wrapped the fuel pump in that and then reinstalled it with an extra piece of rubber in between the frame rail and pump. You can't even hear it any more.

I don't have a muffler but you cant really hear the jet sound of the exhaust inside the van. Outside is another story all together though.

[raoul mitgong]

Dave,
I thought I was done with my install... Did you really have to add more crap to my to do list? Thanks,
-d
_________________
84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim))

[davevickery]

I didn't want to post this sound clip because it sounds way louder than it does in person. But it gives a decent comparison between muffled and unmuffled with my home made PVC and foam piece.


Link