Powder coat or paint?

[GreggK]

Hello All,
Today I removed the front suspension from my '87 2wd van. I'd like to put some color on the lower control arms and spindles. About 3-4 years ago I replaced the upper control arm bushings and while they were out I had them powder coated. For the most part they still look good but there is some rust forming.
I've had many parts on the van powder coated by the same shop and it seems that all the parts that are on the exterior have some degree of rust even after only one winter. Even my new/unused brake drums I had coated are rusted after one winter. I thought by powder coating I would be getting an nice look but more important a protective coating from the weather.
So this time I'm thinking about painting the suspension parts myself. I do have the proper painting equipment.
How would a good media blast with a primer coat followed up with a durable top coat compare to the powder coat? I thought about using Chassis Saver as a primer coat or some other kind of rust encapsulator .
Any opinions or anyone with any experience with this? Thanks!

[bluebus86]

an epoxy two part primer is good to use, DP primer is one very good name brand, then top coat with color. it used to be easy to get chromate loaded paints good rust preventative chromate was, but it has been phased out, not healthy stuff.

The nice thing about paint is it is easy to touch up as needed.

Watch out for rust encapsulators some are absolute junk (Eastwoods for example actually promotes rust under the coating!!!) and the acid based ones may not be compatible with some top coats (epoxy top coats may not cure correctly over an acidic primer)

What is chassis saver?
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[Terry Kay]

So, you want to slap something on top of a failing powder coated top coated parts.

Guess what?
You're throwing another top coat of something on top of something that is garbage.

If you sandblasted all of the brittle, non primered components first, that would be fine.

But you are not going to do that.
Therefore the rust will continue under the powder coating regardless what you lay on top of it.

Been there, done it, and the watched the paint, bedliner, fail because the junk powder coating has no primer under it, plus it's real brittle.

The idea you have will not work.

Your turn.
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T.K.

[GreggK]

I'm think I'm looking at the bare metal cast LCA and spindle. They don't really have a color. I planned to get them media blasted or what ever needed to prep them before primer. Chassis Saver is a product from Magnet Paints. Ive used it over some rust on my floor pans before with Monstaliner on top and I still haven't seen any rust coming through. That was a few years ago.
As I said, my UCA's are powder coated and still looking pretty good. I may just leave them and do the primer/paint idea on another set I have. In the long run Ill probably sell the front suspension parts so I want to choose the best option for finishing them. I'm parting out this particular van and have another one that Ill be working on that is going to be my "keeper".

[Terry Kay]

I laid on my back with the van on semi / heavy equipment jack stands, pressure washed the entire underside and blew black Rino Hyde on it 20 years ago.

It hasn't chipped, peeled ,or cracked off anywhere.

Bedliner applied out of a bedliner gun is the way to ride.

Applying anything over a failing powder coat will continue to fail.
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T.K.

[GreggK]

I didn't understand your response Terry Kay. Were you understanding that I was going to primer over my powder coated parts? Sorry for the confusion or I probably didn't understand your response but I'm trying to decide to continue getting my parts powder coated or I'm going to try to PREP, prime and paint my parts from now on.
I'm looking for guidance in choosing the better choice or the pros and cons of either one. Paint or Powder Coat.

[GreggK]

Ill be wanting to do a coating under the van as well but probably have to wait for warmer weather. I thought about the prep involved for that. Might be more than I want to do. I would be laying under the van as well. I spent most of today under there with it up on jacks, no wheels and Id say I thought about the options of having it under coated some place with a lift.

[Terry Kay]

[vanagonjr]

Note there can be a large difference in powder coating material and the application of such. A local powder coater near me powder coats even springs. They take a 3-pound sledge and wail on a powder coated piece of metal with no ill effects. The price to powder coat ONE steel wheel is about $110 dollars (note includes ALL prep). They have a pretty famous collector that is located at least 2-1/2 hours away, he bring wheels and parts to them to coat, when there are plenty of coaters in between the two of them.

Meanwhile, I have seen posts here on getting 4 wheels done for $60. Man, I would not even think of sandblasting, priming and painting 4 wheels for that much money, let alone powder coat.
It's the equivalent of having someone paint your car - big difference in prep, materials, skill and, of course, cost.
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[Robw_z]

I had a set of 4 steel wheels powder coated for $100. They rusted disappointingly, in storage(hatch of a car stored outdoors to be fair, the hatch seemed to have some sort of moisture greenhouse effect), within about 4 years. I had them redone, but this time paid $140 to have the same base coat applied, and a clear coat on top. They still look great many years later.

If you do get them powder-coated, an additional powder clearcoat may make them hold out much longer. The shinier a part is the less grime has an opportunity to find a foothold.

-Rob

[IdahoDoug]

Rattle can paint has come a long way as well. I've wandered away from the powder coating trend as well. I've had hitches rust in about the same couple year time frame as the results I got from priming and rattle can jobs.

Just today I picked up the 4th set of wheels I have painted with NAPA's rattle cans of wheel paint. When its time for new rubber, I have the tires removed and spend a couple hours sanding, priming and spraying them. Self etching primer. Clear coat and let them sit for a full week before mounting new tires. They last well and its a great value at about $30 worth of sanding material and 3 cans of paint. So, I'd sand, clean, degrease, prime and paint the suspension members rather than do powder coating. While we were all focused on powder coating, the rattle can makers upped their game considerably.

Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Merian]

take it back to the shop that effed it up in the first place
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[Gnarlodious]

IdahoDoug makes a good point. Have your parts sandblasted first, then a high quality rustproof paint of several layers, with thorough drying.

I did it to an old junkyard trailer hitch that was very rusty and all pitted. I had it totally sandblasted so bare steel was exposed. Sprayed it with Rustoleum krinkle finish several times. The result is more than I expected, a totally waterproof textured finish.

But its all about the sandblasting.
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Vanagon ’83 diesel AAZ w/Giles injection, 5spd 4.57R&P+TBD and a '78 diesel Rabbit

[bluebus86]

rustoleum spray paints I have had good succes with, I used the red oxide primer followed by color.
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[djkeev]

I've never embraced the Powder coat craze.

It is one of those products that can be really good when properly prepped, properly applied and quality materials are used.

But like so many products, it is really easy to take short cuts, (many do) and produce a nice looking product that very quickly begins to fail and disappoint the end user.

A lot of commercially sold stuff screams "POWDERCOATED" yet it quickly flakes off and fails revealing rusty metal that needs attention.

I'm solidly on the properly prep, prime and paint side of the issue.

Dave
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[vanagonjr]

[Tbob]

I grew up in California, in Ventura County, not right near the beach. Almost any coating would work out there in the arid and dry climate. Then, I moved to automotive hell, Chicago. I found that all those coating methods that I used in California with good success did not work in the harsh, damp and salt strewn roads of the upper Midwest. Therefore, when Terry Kay, who both lives in that awful environment and is a practicing professional in the black arts of auto(well, truck) refinishing, tells us how to refinish something and what products work, I take his comments to heart. By my own experience, the man knows whereof he speaks. If I would have advised you long ago based only on my successful experience of how to refinish metal products in California, my advice would not have worked for you out here in the winter wastelands.
That said, powdercoating does not work out here. I now live in the lower midwest (almost in Kentucky) and you see powdercoated truck bumpers and steps and even light poles that people put in their yards showing telltale sections of their finish peeling off in large, plastic flakes. Many of these truck parts are on relatively new trucks, like from 2012 or newer. I consider that poor durability. But, I keep my stuff forever.
Powdercoating, in my opinion, is popular because it has a smooth consistant finish and it is considered an ecologically less damaging process. Durability in less than ideal environtments (such as any non desert area) seems to be poor.
So, if I am coating any of my van/bus or motorcycle parts, I have much better success with Polyurathane paints, like Imeron. Beautiful finish, easy to apply, excellent durability. Downside is that it takes special personal protective equiptment that you absolutely must use when you are spraying it. I won't powdercoat anything unless I move back to the desert.
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[Terry Kay]

Ex boss bought 2 $300,000.00 Terex 30 yard Terex articulating dump trucks brand new.
Bigger than most of your houses, and that's each, they are parked in the yard or on the job, 24 / 7 / 365.

After 5 years where ever a rock , stone, aggregate hit the roof, cab , dump body, frame it started to grow into basketball size rust holes."Fix them" he sez.

Trying to sand, grind, sandblast the rest of the good stuff to give it new priming biters was terrible.
Difficult.
The entire machines were powder coated from the factory.
No primer on the bare metal, just color.
Unbelievable.

After 2 weeks of griding ,sanding
sandblasting, I zinc chromated them, sanded with 180, fill primed with SW Ultra Fill, sanded with 220, and went over them twice with Imron.

They are still in the back yard, looking like the day I painted them, taking the UV, and withstanding rocks, stones, dirt, asphalt getting dropped on them by careless end loader, back hoe operators , for 9 years now.

Urethane when applied properly will outshine , outlast the powder coating process 100 times better rocks, stones aggregate will bounce off as the Imron is not at all brittle being urethane.

The powder coat is good for certain stuff, but not good for areas that could take a beating.

Anything urethane including bedliner.
It's flexible, durable, and will take the beating without failing.

Too bad I can't post semi dump bodies here.
There are sevaral I painted with Industrial Imron 11 years ago in red that look as good as the day I painted them.

Use bedliner or Imron on the bottom sides of your vans.
You'll very happy you did.

All of this information has been posted here many times, and is located within the Samba forum archives, this sure isn't the first time.
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T.K.

[mellowslow]

Last winter I pulled off the suspension bit of my '87.

With all intentions of painting being cheaper, I brought the upper control arms, springs, lower control arms, drop links, etc out to be blasted and prepped.

Blasting and prepping was 75% of the cost of powder coating so why not?

When I picked the perfect looking parts up I asked: "Do I have to be careful with this?"

The powder coat guy took one of my coil springs in each hand, reached out his arms and then clanged the springs together violently and said: "Nope"

Can you do that with paint?

So I am running powder coat still looking like it did when I bolted it up this spring, but sorry, I won't be testing it on winter roads.
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'87 WBWE FAS Gen V

[djkeev]