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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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 Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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^^^^^
exactly  seems that if you let them sit for a few days they clatter a bit. sometimes they clatter for a LONG time....doesn't matter...new, old, hot, cold they are a crappy setup from the gitgo
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
^^^^^
exactly seems that if you let them sit for a few days they clatter a bit. sometimes they clatter for a LONG time....doesn't matter...new, old, hot, cold they are a crappy setup from the gitgo |
The VW supplement in the factory service manual says to explain to the customer a hydraulic knock knock is normal and just drive away - that it will stop in a while.
We all know how much camshafts, rocker arms and valve tips love constant little hammers pounding on them.  The gift that keeps giving - a hydraulic cam in a T4 engine. The recipient will be forever reminded by each little knock that you loved them so much you gave them a little hammer sound in their head worse than tinnitus.
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kooper271
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2016
Posts: 337
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| Many really quality rebuilds have maybe $4K to $5K in the rebuild doing it themselves. |
Example for the OP: I'm building an engine the same as yours. 77 FI 2.0 bone stock GD. Between parts and machining I have about $4k into it, and I'm not even using the most expensive recommended parts - HAM heads and a Web Cam camshaft. |
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Malokin Martin
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2007
Posts: 3100
Location: E-burg
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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For what it's worth, if you're having someone "build" you an engine, it needs to be: A.) local and B.) hands off.
Your new engine will have an issue. Guaranteed. In fact it will have multiple issues in the first 100 miles. You want that guy within 50 miles to fix the issues. The guy living in another state who slapped your engine together doesn't give two shits that you're having problems.
For the hands off part, don't fall into the trap of saving a few pennies and buying a long block to dress/install yourself. The minute something catastrophic goes wrong with the engine it's something you did. If you're going the "buy" route, you want as little to do with it as possible. For example: The last engine I had done, I literally walked into the shop, picked up the keys and drove it out. And I paid a premium for the installation/test drive. And you know what? When it grenaded 700 miles later? "But Wahhh waaa Chinese parts". Not my problem. Here's your paperweight back. Make me another.
Also, real quick at the end here: make sure its a MILEAGE and not MONTHS warranty. |
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obnoxiousblue
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 2940
Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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Unfortunately, local isn't an option as there isn't enough of a following locally for there to be a shop with the kind of engine experience we hobbiests expect.
That said, I could go with solid lifters. I've never had much of a problem with my hydros and have rather enjoyed not being married to maintaining them as frequently.
Sorry skills, definitely not going Subi - I get why people do - but I'm a stock nazi.
I'm not looking to spend 10g here, but will undoubtedly spend money in a better component or part. I was reading up on the blueprint special heads, and now need to look up Web Cam cam shafts...
Anyone who has seen my bus will know I take good care of it, and don't mind spending $$$ to keep it happy. But $10k in the engine alone just seems crazy - not that it isn't important and worth the investment - but I imagine that's spending money for someone to literally hand you back the bus running and driving.
Practicality has to have some weight here, there are good tins a brand new exhaust in my bus now that will be refinished and returned to the new engine. I'm 31, hope to own a home one day, and still need to eat. Lol
I really think buying the best longblock I can, with the best components I can get and being as meticulous with this as I have with other projects will have to be the best I can do.
As for mileage, I plan to drive the balls off of it come spring so as to have some confidence by summer. I understand things happen, and to some degree I suppose I just have to hope for the best?! Lol
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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obnoxiousblue
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 2940
Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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Just spoke to the folks at WebCam. Man, they have a good game going. Spoke to a real knowledgeable lady.
She suggests a high lift short duration cam, which based on my limited knowledge should mean I get a little better "get up and go"
They suggested wither a 107i, standard 86, or 494 grind. I'll have to decide if I want hydro (for maintenance) or solid (for sound) and they also suggested buying their gear - at only $60 it's a no brainier - and saves having to countersink the bolts on my current gear.
Also looks like they have some great feedback online - anyone here running their cam?
I'm thinking that, with new-rebuilt AMC heads (maybe blueprint specials) might be the way to go. Buying better parts from the get go should hopefully reduce chances for failure.
Also got a beautiful rebuilt 205p distributor, and a rebuilt EGR. Going to order a new harness from Kyles Harnesses this week or next too.
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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FYI likes the WebCam 142 and new lifters. I assume you are staying with FI because you mention Kyle.
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obnoxiousblue
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 2940
Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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Definitely staying with FI.
You have the 142? How (functionally) does it differ? Is it good around town and highway?
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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| obnoxiousblue wrote: |
Definitely staying with FI.
You have the 142? How (functionally) does it differ? Is it good around town and highway? |
It is excellent with FI although the manifold vacuum is a little low because it is a longer duration that a stock bus camshaft. The ones WebCam mentioned have an even longer duration. The 142 says stock FI but that is the stock European 914 / 912E with 2.0L GA motor. We had GD and GE here in North America. GD and GE are 70 HP motors. The GA uses a slightly better exhaust, a slightly different FI system, and a slightly higher compression ratio (very small difference). It is a 90 - 100 HP motor. My bus pulls fine whether on the boulevard or freeway. The upper RPM range is extended about 400 - 500 RPM vs a stock bus cam. That means you'll feel it begin to fall off about 4,800 - 5,000 RPM which you will rarely use with a bus engine unless you want to rebuild it often. Mileage is about 19 - 20 MPG when tuned a little rich and timing backed off a little to keep head temps down. It passes smog too.
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Gregg in the 603
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2013
Posts: 404
Location: New Hampshire, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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SG, by timing backed off, what do you mean? 27 BTDC, hoses off 3500 rpm? Trying to cool my CHT's a little.
Besides a little extra heat and the fact that he didn't like my core, Gary Leblanc built me a good motor. I'm very happy with it so far, just running warm.
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1979 Mexico Beige Westy auto
Dirty Dover, NH |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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28 - 29 BTDC full in 3500 RPM, hoses off. Stock would be about 32. IF you have a cat you can't get much richer than 13.1 - 13.3:1 at 65 - 70 MPH. If you don't have a cat it doesn't matter. 13.1 - 13.3 at 65 - 70 is about 14.7 at 25 - 35 MPH light load. Most of the 2L motors run around 400 F at 60 - 65 MPH, maybe 410 F flat and level no headwind. Same engine around town stop and go will be 350 F heads and oil 180 F. Oil temp at freeway speeds kinda depends on altitude and ambient temps outside.
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Gregg in the 603
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2013
Posts: 404
Location: New Hampshire, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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Really sorry to hijack this thread! But if you get a Suburban motor, this may be relevant.
SG, I am definitely at 405 CHT doing 65 mph on a flat, no headwind run. Add a slope or some headwind, I easily break 410 and have seen 425 at times. I feel like that's high. Lots of people on here have never seen 400 let alone 425. Am I wrong? The DD CHT spark plug sender is perfectly seated, no blow-by concerns there. I can't find any vacuum leaks, hoses are very decent. I'm out of ideas. Or are these temps normal like you say?
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1979 Mexico Beige Westy auto
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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| Gregg in the 603 wrote: |
Really sorry to hijack this thread! But if you get a Suburban motor, this may be relevant.
SG, I am definitely at 405 CHT doing 65 mph on a flat, no headwind run. Add a slope or some headwind, I easily break 410 and have seen 425 at times. I feel like that's high. Lots of people on here have never seen 400 let alone 425. Am I wrong? The DD CHT spark plug sender is perfectly seated, no blow-by concerns there. I can't find any vacuum leaks, hoses are very decent. I'm out of ideas. Or are these temps normal like you say? |
It's normal for a bus. Keep in mind that is the hottest part of the head. We see that all the time in summer. Everyone says they run cooler but if you hang around long enough you'll find them posting that they are hotter. Also from what Colin found out, there are two ways to hook up the DD gauge. If the wires aren't just right the temperature will be about 200 F low. When Colin rewired his by their verbal instructions his head temps were right in where yours are, and he has a totally bone stock low mileage bus that was rarely run in its life with an original VW 1977 engine with low miles on it. A good friend burned up 3 Vanagon engines under warranty they ran so hot. It is why VW left the air cooled market in North America.
There are only two ways I know to tweak the engine to get lower temps - richen the mixture so you are using a little fuel to cool the cylinders, and retard the timing a little over factory specs. Both detune the engine. Some engine tuners will tell you that if you send more exhaust out of the cylinder with their cam it will run cooler but the math says otherwise - X amount of thrust requires Y amount of energy. To get that energy one combines fuel and air. That makes the power. The only part of their argument that makes any sense is you might shorten the time the energy works but again even if you send all the heat out, that actually reduces the effective compression ratio so to get the same power one needs to increase the amount of fuel and air injected into the engine to make up for it. Cooling a bus is a dance. If you plugged the exhaust and sent no exhaust out the engine would die and be very cold. If you ran huge volumes of air and fuel thru it to make a huge amount of power it would be very hot like a racing engine. If you've never raced on a road track you have no idea how much of an enemy heat is. If you burned the air and fuel and threw them out the exhaust the second they combined there would be no energy left to push the pistons.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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obnoxiousblue
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 2940
Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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Ok. Getting close...
Doing a set of Len Hofmann's Blueprint Special heads
Webcam 107i (hydro) or 73 cam (Len recommends the 73)
Got a NOS case that'll get built up...
What for pistons, cylinders, and bearings? Any recommendations on brands/models?
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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obnoxiousblue
Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2007
Posts: 2940
Location: East Northport, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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Are head studs, and case bolts available new?
Where can in find them? Tried looking in the classifieds, but only got 8 returns on "head studs" and " head bolts"
What size are they?
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Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper |
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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2539
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:59 am Post subject: Re: Engine Pre-Purchase ??'s |
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| When I rebuilt my engine, I used Len's heads, Silverline main bearings, AA pistons and cylinders, had the rods reground and balanced and the stock crank polished locally. I am running a 1.8 liter with a Web 73 with an early autotrans. So far so good. I have put 2000 miles on it so far with no issues (fingers crossed). I'm not sure if people like AA pistons and cylinders. |
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