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Rallyedude Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2009 Posts: 206 Location: Aylmer, QC
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 11:10 am Post subject: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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I've got a client that is asking for install of a painless wiring kit . It does not look anywhere close to fitting without considerable modification. I'm very concerned about future serviceability with this harness. It is a new client, I would not have suggested this now that I have investigated it.
Anyone used a painless kit?
I'm thinking of either updating to 85-91 wiring . Or I will Update to 90 up system3 from a 90-99 VW . I have built a few MK1 rabbits (Vr6 /1.8t/G6016v) with system 3 and a bit of hybridize . It wouldn't be stock evidently but a very factoryesque system could be made . And I can make it dead reliable. Any competent VW shop could work on it. The painless kit concerns me for shops working on it in the future.
Opinions? _________________ 85 2wd Doka ABA In progress
82 westy diesel under the knife , MTDi ,weddle gears |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16858 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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Rallyedude wrote: |
Opinions? |
keep it the stock 84 wiring is my vote. never had any real issues with stock wiring in good shape
anything else will be a pig for future owners/repairers. any time I do custom work...the main vehicle stays stock and just adapted to whatever platform (so for example, the wiring on an engine swap vehicle would be stock up to the interface...like it's a stock 84 vanagon up to THIS point (this being called out as where the adaptation took place...like the black box in the engine bay)
I have real reservations about building 100% 1 off things for the public _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17109 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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I agree, Keep it stock. No one will ever be able to troubleshoot anything electrical going forward using the diagrams. Plus, they aren't painless. _________________ ☮️ |
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Rallyedude Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2009 Posts: 206 Location: Aylmer, QC
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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His harness had a small fire behind the dash . So something has to be done .
But finding an 84 older will not be easy . And I'm not a fan of that style.
But I get future maintenance for sure .
Thanks for the input _________________ 85 2wd Doka ABA In progress
82 westy diesel under the knife , MTDi ,weddle gears |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17109 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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You could likely find a good used harness here in the classifieds. Also place a wanted add. They are free. _________________ ☮️ |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6527 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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I’ve not used, but this is what I’ll do if ours fails:
https://www.vanagain.com/product/digijet-engine-wiring-harness-1-9l-vanagon-83-5-95
They do accept or return phone calls if you have questions. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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Silverghost500 Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2018 Posts: 1086 Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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Finding a good used harness may be a challenge. You might find one that's not burned like the customer's, but it may have other damages to it that could cause intermittent gremlins.
I've seen some guys put an LS swap using a Painless Wiring in a small pickup recently. It was a pretty long project because of all the ways they had to integrate it into existing wiring and connectors. The truck was at least 10-15 newer than this Vanagon.
Get Vanagon schematics, and start building a translation schematic if you do go the PW route. Make copies, give the customer a copy. Keep one on backup if/when they lose their copy. _________________ 1986 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia "Von Westy"
Honda K24A converversion-Road Testing Phase
3-Speed Automatic
Von Westy YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbhyZYxJEQrUuLnMbLleeIA |
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Ahwahnee Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010 Posts: 9797 Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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I installed a Painless on a friend's restoration of an XK150. It was what he wanted.
We're still friends and in the end the car ran and drove but it was so much more difficult to work with than the stock harness, added nothing in the way of reliability and heaven help the new owner if they ever have to trouble-shoot the electrics. |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6829 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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Just an FYI for anyone thinking ahead that it is probably not a bad idea to get a spare wire harness if only to have for spare "oem color coded" wiring if you need to repair your harness someday. _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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ALIKA T3 Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009 Posts: 6345 Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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I have a 2.1L Vanagon 1988 complete harness I could sell.
I pile up so much shit at the shop as I save absolutely everything when I strip a van, but I never take the time to list things _________________ Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7623
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Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2024 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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Hey E1, is that a Kyle Automotive harness Ken is selling? Sure looks like it.
I have a Kyle harness on my 76 Westfalia. It’s so nice and pliable. Really well built. Sometimes when I’m working on the 72 or the 85 I cringe when I’m moving wires around. As if something crispy might break off I can’t see.
RallyEdude, does your client know about Kyle harnesses?
https://kyleautomotivespecialties.com/my-story/ _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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Rallyedude Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2009 Posts: 206 Location: Aylmer, QC
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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Xevin wrote: |
Hey E1, is that a Kyle Automotive harness Ken is selling? Sure looks like it.
I have a Kyle harness on my 76 Westfalia. It’s so nice and pliable. Really well built. Sometimes when I’m working on the 72 or the 85 I cringe when I’m moving wires around. As if something crispy might break off I can’t see.
RallyEdude, does your client know about Kyle harnesses?
https://kyleautomotivespecialties.com/my-story/ |
That's a very nice harness . But my issue is the main body harness not the engine harness. _________________ 85 2wd Doka ABA In progress
82 westy diesel under the knife , MTDi ,weddle gears |
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Rallyedude Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2009 Posts: 206 Location: Aylmer, QC
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:12 am Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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Ahwahnee wrote: |
I installed a Painless on a friend's restoration of an XK150. It was what he wanted.
We're still friends and in the end the car ran and drove but it was so much more difficult to work with than the stock harness, added nothing in the way of reliability and heaven help the new owner if they ever have to trouble-shoot the electrics. |
Sounds like Painless should rebrand to painful. I think the only reason to use a painless kit is if you're building a hot rod or something totally one off _________________ 85 2wd Doka ABA In progress
82 westy diesel under the knife , MTDi ,weddle gears |
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Rallyedude Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2009 Posts: 206 Location: Aylmer, QC
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:17 am Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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ALIKA T3 wrote: |
I have a 2.1L Vanagon 1988 complete harness I could sell.
I pile up so much shit at the shop as I save absolutely everything when I strip a van, but I never take the time to list things |
Whenever you're ready to start a support group Ill be right there ready to sign up. I often wonder if drugs might have been cheaper than my car addiction ....I am slowly trying to get better . But damn , I have to many cars, projects not to think of the cars Ive owned since i was 15. 36 years of largely VW ownership
Thank you all for the input . I'll see what he decides . But I'm not putting that painful harness in. But , I may update to one of the other choices I mentioned . _________________ 85 2wd Doka ABA In progress
82 westy diesel under the knife , MTDi ,weddle gears |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6527 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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Xevin wrote: |
Hey E1, is that a Kyle Automotive harness Ken is selling? Sure looks like it.
I have a Kyle harness on my 76 Westfalia. It’s so nice and pliable. Really well built. Sometimes when I’m working on the 72 or the 85 I cringe when I’m moving wires around. As if something crispy might break off I can’t see.
RallyEdude, does your client know about Kyle harnesses?
https://kyleautomotivespecialties.com/my-story/ |
I think so, but am not 100% sure… is Kyle in Ohio or near there?
His name’s come up in racing circles as well, as The Man.
(Looked, Yep, that’s him) _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17109 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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I’ve been working off and on, on VWs, Audis, and Porsches since 1977. I have yet to replace a wiring harness that wasn’t somehow damaged by someone. My feeling is you don’t really need a spare harness if you or the tech knows what they are doing. The Germans did a pretty good job with their harnesses. _________________ ☮️ |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6527 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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MarkWard wrote: |
I’ve been working off and on, on VWs, Audis, and Porsches since 1977. I have yet to replace a wiring harness that wasn’t somehow damaged by someone. My feeling is you don’t really need a spare harness if you or the tech knows what they are doing. The Germans did a pretty good job with their harnesses. |
I’d never considered replacement until a hot-running exhaust melted parts of the harness in contact with the heatshield.
Unrelated, the last inch of wiring before the injector connectors look burnt from the inside-out as well. So far so good on that, working perfectly, but it’s nerve-wracking just looking at them, and pondering the source of those burns. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17109 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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I was talking harnesses in general, not an engine harness that got melted by hot running exhaust. But I digress here are my VW wire tools. The red pin tool is for larger pins and is spring loaded. The smaller one I purchased probably from the Baum tool guy that used to come around. Have had it since the mid 70s
_________________ ☮️ |
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Rallyedude Samba Member
Joined: December 06, 2009 Posts: 206 Location: Aylmer, QC
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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MarkWard wrote: |
I was talking harnesses in general, not an engine harness that got melted by hot running exhaust. But I digress here are my VW wire tools. The red pin tool is for larger pins and is spring loaded. The smaller one I purchased probably from the Baum tool guy that used to come around. Have had it since the mid 70s
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Wow that terminal crimper is wicked . I've got a Volvo crimper from back in the day , but it aint that old . You've got the prototype there .
Wiring repair does not phase me . Or harness replacements .
this is my R wagon build . I download from both donor and recipient vehicles prior to dismantle . Then do any custom coding required , https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/runes-golf-r-wagon-build.8527842/ _________________ 85 2wd Doka ABA In progress
82 westy diesel under the knife , MTDi ,weddle gears |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17109 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Main wiring harness replace on 84 westy ...Painless... |
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Crap, posted to the wrong thread. _________________ ☮️ |
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