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67ctbug
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Joined: January 24, 2016
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Location: CT
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 Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:25 pm Post subject: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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I've been using this welder for a few months, and it's pretty bad. Has anyone used this? I'm looking for tips on how to not burn through on everything.
If I weld anything thinner than around 16 gauge it burns through  Its bad...
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'67 Beetle L41
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'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
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...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future".  |
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62DUBdude
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Joined: August 25, 2016
Posts: 1
Location: Huntington
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| Save this machine for slightly heavier tasks and try and get yourself a TIG welding unit. This is what you want for thin materials and low amp welding. |
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theKbStockpiler
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Joined: July 07, 2012
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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You will have to manually pulse weld or attach a heat sink to it like a thick piece of metal behind it or copper. Also you can't weld "by" the amount of weld deposit. It's like TIG welding with out using filler rod.
If you reverse the polarity with it ,it will cool it way down but it causes a massive amount of spatter that you will have to clean up with a grinder.
For a introductory welder I would look into a Klutch or a Alpha.
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67ctbug
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Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3624
Location: CT
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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Ok guys bear with me, what is tig welding? Is it like stick welding? I've heard of using copper, but how would I do that? Is it just putting a copper sheet behind where I'm putting the weld? I'm just doing tack welds, no beads for fear of warping the thin patches.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
| ...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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theKbStockpiler
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Joined: July 07, 2012
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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A TIG welder is like a gas welder but it has a arc instead of a flame. They are usually used for welding aluminum. Fit up has to be perfect with them ,no filling holes easily and they are expensive and not well suited for amature autowork.
I would go with maually pulse welding with your equipment, series of tack welds before they cool below being red. Do 3 of them in a row and THEN let your piece cool down. Move to another spot and then do another 3 tacks in a series that mimicks a short stitch weld.
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My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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67ctbug
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Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3624
Location: CT
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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Now what is pulse welding? Just holding the trigger for like a second? If that's what it is, ive tried it. I filled the hole doing that and had a tiny pinhole left so I tacked it closed and it blew a hole again, this time around about a half inch  maybe a little less. My current welder is set to low voltage and 4 to 5 wire speed.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
| ...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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jspbtown
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Joined: January 27, 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| What size wire are you using? |
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67ctbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2016
Posts: 3624
Location: CT
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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.035
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
| ...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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theKbStockpiler
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Joined: July 07, 2012
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:08 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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- .030 flux core is the smallest made so make sure you have that installed along with a .030 contact tip.
- Try to use the shortest amount of stick out and get your wire speed adjusted to be as slow as possible without creating a glob on the end of the wire while welding. Flux core tends to have a large wire speed range in which it will work.The Lincoln flux core nozzles at Lowes and HD fit a lot of the smaller amp welder guns. You can also cut down a MIG nozzle so the contact tip is about a 1/16th of an inch below the nozzle.
Do one manual pulse weld. Pull the trigger and let the weld pool spread out as far as you want it with out moving the nozzle.When the weld pool is as large as you want it ,release the trigger. Before the pool has cooled down below the temperature of a dull red, move the nozzle a slight bit so you will make another pool that is overlapping the last one by at least 1/3 of the pool size of the original. Do three of these in a row and then weld in a different area until the heat from these 3 overlapping weld pools cools down. After they have cooled down you can lengthen these 3 weld pools out by another 3 weld pools.
When you are welding on a thin piece of metal you actually have to concern yourself with
the glowing localized area around the weld pool and not the actual weld pool. Welding too hot on a thin metal does not give you enough time to react to the weld pool. Using flux core on steel that is below 18 gauge constitutes welding too hot. 
Practice this by making a spot weld ( equal to one pulse weld) and watch as the red heated area around the arc spreads out to a larger size. The larger that red heated area around the area, the larger the weld pool is going to be. IMPORTANT: When you are flux core welding ,it is very hard to see around the arc and see the weld pool because when you are welding thin metal the arc is going to be bigger then the weld pool or you will burn through.
Edit: Unless by luck and your welding conditions are allowing you to see well , I highly recommend the HF Blue Flame Auto adjusting welding helmet and the use of a hand held light to get the light around where you are going to arc over the #4 lens that auto adjusting helmets start at. I think there is a supercoupon for $40 right now.
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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The harbor freight 90 amp welder.....is a flux core welder.
In my limited experience......a flux core welder of any type is not ideal for welding on sheet metal....as others have noted.....not only is it messy......it typically requires a higher wire speed snd most flux core wires do not produce as stable of a bead at the low low current levels you need to tack together delicate sheet metal.
While yes.....a TIG welder would be the best......its also expensive and not 100% necessary.
You can do excellent and perfectly acceptable work with a MIG welder......BUT.....make sure it has infinitely variable currenet control and wire speed......not just 7-10 clicks or steps. And you need to use thinner wire like .023".
One of the best deals out there is the Eastwood 135 MIG. It can use .023 wire up to .035"....can do both flux core and has MIG gas shielding. It uses standard Tweco style tips and gun parts and works excellent for sheet metal.
Do yourself a favor if you get the Eastwood or and of the other small MIG units.....and buy the highest quality wire you can get. Buy it at a weldjng supply....not at Harbor Freight, Home Depot or Northern tool.
The alloys and the quality of the metal and the accuracy of the wire extrusion are critical......also......buy it by the 10lb spool.....not the small spool.
My local guys a Praxair...recently suggested that with most small migs.....that the take of clutch and spool feeds more accurately when the weight of the heavier spool keeps the drive motor under tension......and they were 100% right. Night and day better wire speed control for starting the arc.
With certain types of thin sheet metal....even with a coppper heat sink underneath the weld gap.....trying to weld with flux core is a recipe for blowing holes ...actually for poking holes....in hot metal.
I recently needed to tack in a patch and was out of shield gas.....so I popped in some .030 flux core wire into my Eastwood.....switched polarity for flux core....dialed in after a couple of tests.......and proceeded to make a total mess of it
I was being lazy. Had to go down and swap my empty for a full one. Went back to shielded gas.....and stitched it rught up. Ray |
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theKbStockpiler
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| Quote: |
....and buy the highest quality wire you can get. Buy it at a weldjng supply....not at Harbor Freight, Home Depot or Northern tool.
The alloys and the quality of the metal and the accuracy of the wire extrusion are critical......also......buy it by the 10lb spool.....not the small spool.
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Ray I have uses all sorts of MIG and Flux core wire and have found NO difference with solid wire other than price. HF wire is more expensive than HD and works exactly the same. I'm under the impression it is all manufactured from the same place or if you produced it any cheaper than even the boutique brands it' won't work at all. With flux core there is a difference and might spatter more or have thicker slag, but end result looks the same.
The more you spend on a MIG the better they are. The inverter machines with high open voltage and variable inductance make the all transformer machines look like a joke but they COST significantly MORE. The cheaper machines are always too hot or struggling to arc. I'ts not as simple as looking at a smooth graph of it's electrical characteristics.
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My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
| Quote: |
....and buy the highest quality wire you can get. Buy it at a weldjng supply....not at Harbor Freight, Home Depot or Northern tool.
The alloys and the quality of the metal and the accuracy of the wire extrusion are critical......also......buy it by the 10lb spool.....not the small spool.
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Ray I have uses all sorts of MIG and Flux core wire and have found NO difference with solid wire other than price. HF wire is more expensive than HD and works exactly the same. I'm under the impression it is all manufactured from the same place or if you produced it any cheaper than even the boutique brands it' won't work at all. With flux core there is a difference and might spatter more or have thicker slag, but end result looks the same.
The more you spend on a MIG the better they are. The inverter machines with high open voltage and variable inductance make the all transformer machines look like a joke but they COST significantly MORE. The cheaper machines are always too hot or struggling to arc. I'ts not as simple as looking at a smooth graph of it's electrical characteristics. |
You need to do some shopping and not just compare off theory. Sure the more you spend on a mig the better they can be.....but ....if we are talking about sheet metal only.....most of the higher capability of more expensive migs is actually not useful.
A MIG has to be made good enough...and have the right features.....to do sheet metal well. If you do not have thicker work to weld.....or welding to do every day.....a lot of the expense of buying a more expensive MIG....is worthless. Also....if the controls on the unit are not infinite steps......its worthless for sheet metal nomatter how good the transformer unit is.
When I started shopping for a mig JUST for sheet metal.....I had an older excellent Miller unit ai had borrowed to compare with and a newer Lincoln. Both excelent machines.
I didnt hage much money to play with three years ago so did a bunch of review and comparison shopping. For sheet metal work....thin beads.....the Eastwood compared in the top 3.
It beat the Hobart tools and the Lincoln tools in the entry level price ranges in performance. Primarily in control... because those two...and neither did the Miller for that matter....have infinite control settings.
We are talking thin sheet metal work here....nothing else. Buy something else if real welding work for anything over .070" thick is something you need all the time.
As for wire....no....they are not made in the same place...or made of the same alloy or of the same quality. I found this out when I was still using a borrowed Miller.
What you get with cheap wire..... is at very low current settings and slow feed speed.....you can get an intermittent pulse strength that acts like a voltage spike or drop. No.....what it is is poor contact at the tip orifice and/or feed slippage.
This is caused by wire thickness variation by upwards to .002" on average. That is from crappy extrusion on cheap wire.
Swapping to a quality wire brand of the same adveried alloy.....fixed it INSTANTLY.
Also.....poor alloying of cheap wire can be SEEN....if you hazard to test it and look.....by how fast the external sheath of the wire tarnishes/oxidizes.
Two different makes of wire will develope a vastly different level of patina from oxidizatiion. That patina ....while not being a non-comductor....is a poor conductor.
Also noted in numerous welding texts.....and found out quicker with the crappier wire. Remove your spool from the unit and store in plastic bag with calcium chloride dessicant packa. High hunidity developes patina and oxidization on the wire in the spool.....and expecially fast on the crappier wire.
Again....if you are not working at very low infinite settings....usually lower than most click stop basic migs have...you may never notice some of this.
Also in the same ballpark.....for thin sheet metal work.....avoid cheap tip and nozzle replacement parts from places like HF and Northern tool. If you hazard to check with rod gauges....a lot of the tips have very innaccurate .....usually oversized .....tip orifices.this creates intermittent current flow at the tip and also overheats the tip causing frequent wire fusion and stoppage even at lowest settings. |
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67ctbug
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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Wow, you guys are really helpful! I saw the mig 135 from Eastwood and looked at reviews and it looks good, I might start saving for that. If I can take my bugs chassis and body to a friends place, he has a Hobart Iron Man 230 I can use. I've used it and it is really good. From what I'm gathering here, flux core is bad for what I'm doing, and I should use something else. I'm currently using HF wire.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
| ...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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theKbStockpiler
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Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| Quote: |
You need to do some shopping and not just compare off theory. Sure the more you spend on a mig the better they can be.....but ....if we are talking about sheet metal only.....most of the higher capability of more expensive migs is actually not useful.
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These facts are based on experience. I have used Lincoln ,Hobart,HF,Forney and cheap wire bought from Amazon. All of the soid wire worked exactly the same. No one is going to have the welds on their car x-rayed.
I have a Century 155gs and a ESAB fabricator 252i.
The ESAB will arc at such a low voltage that A #8 lens is too dark.The voltage has to be turned up so you can see the arc.You can set the inductance high enough that you can see the welder going from dip transfer to arcing. You can lap weld 18 gauge with .030 flux core and do a continuous bead normally.
Eastwoods are disposable. They do not have a service center.
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My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
| Quote: |
You need to do some shopping and not just compare off theory. Sure the more you spend on a mig the better they can be.....but ....if we are talking about sheet metal only.....most of the higher capability of more expensive migs is actually not useful.
|
These facts are based on experience. I have used Lincoln ,Hobart,HF,Forney and cheap wire bought from Amazon. All of the soid wire worked exactly the same. No one is going to have the welds on their car x-rayed.
I have a Century 155gs and a ESAB fabricator 252i.
The ESAB will arc at such a low voltage that A #8 lens is too dark.The voltage has to be turned up so you can see the arc.You can set the inductance high enough that you can see the welder going from dip transfer to arcing. You can lap weld 18 gauge with .030 flux core and do a continuous bead normally.
Eastwoods are disposable. They do not have a service center. |
Then you have not checked wire gauge....or you would find the issues.
Oddly....that same function is precisely why I bought the Eastwood You can turn it down low enough that a self darkening helmet does not function well.
Guess what...no one cares if the Eastwood is disposable....just like the hobart....just like the Lincoln...all of which are now and have been for a while....made by the same company.
This issue is this....little cheap crappy welders with good controls...work JUST AS WELL.....for 98% of those on these forums working on strictly sheet metal...who are likley only ever going to be working on one....maybe two cars....ever.
The amount of welding required on my car.....for instance.....while delicate.....is not much in volume. The cost to get into even a decent Miller.....or ESAB.....= $$$$....or optionally pay to have a shop weld my sheet metal.....which with towing each direction every time ....plus the fact that working on a 411 or 412 is an exercise in experimentation at a welding shop that I am not willing....or able.....to pay for the experience of....=$$$$$..........the fact that the piddling $300 I spent on a fully controllable sheetmetal welder, with helmet and cart plus a few supplies....which topped out at $300 with free shipping........
Who gives a rats ass about service?
I got excellent work.....and just finishing my strut mounts more than paid for the unit even if it crapped out right there. I had been quoted closs to $700 for fabricating the upper strut mounts.
When it then lasted through the mods to my subframe......which no shop would touch at any price simply because they were alien and repleacement parts for a screw up on their part are unobtanium.......paid for this crappy disposible unit about ten fold.
Yes....you are probably a better welder than I am.....but this crappy disposible welder does beautiful sheet metal welds.....with less skill ....because it has good voltage and wire speed controls. Outside of that....its just adequate.
What you are missing is that the vast majority of people who need light sheet metal welding....in these forums.....will never get it done....because:
A. They cannot afford to have it done
B. They will not buy the equipment and learn to do it themselves.....because people like you keep telling them it cannot and should not be done without THE BEST quality welder.....which they cannot afford.
I realize I work on a stranger car than most.....but I can completely restore about six beetles for what it costs to restore a single 412.....simply because there is no pan...its all welded unibody....and I have to fabricate virtually everything. There will be over $40k over 15 years wrapped up in a basically bone stock but excellent restoration of this car.
By the way.....those who work on superbeetles and 412s....most early unibody cars....especially in the strut tub areas...will find delicately curved areas of metal that are very hard to weld without everything being perfect...and controls being excellent. This is because when the metal was stretched across the mold and stamped......it stretched. So metal that is everywhere else......065" to .068".....can be as thin as .045".....and its stressed....and becaue these are flex areas....it is work hardened and brittle. Also if you have to do any considerable hammer and dolly work to an area then to be welded.....its work hardened and brittle. Prime for blowing holes through without excellent current snd wires speed control and very smooth wire feed.
Those three things my crappy disposible Eastwood welder does very well. I have three major weld sessions left to do before I am done. At the $288 base price I spent on it.....even if it dies and went in the dumpster.....on each and every project of the five major ones I have for this car....I would have spent a grand total of about $1500....in $288 segments that fit a budget.
I could not have paid to have my welding done for less than 5X that cost....and could not buy a top notch lifelong welder for less than 2X that.....which is not in any budget because otherwise I would not have $ to buy parts.
Perhaps it rates a different question...."whats the best welder"....versus "what is an affordable welder that does excellent work for limited use". Ray |
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theKbStockpiler
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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Back to the OP's original question:
Here's one of my threads on the subject I should have posted first.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=624774&highlight=
I have not gone back through it but from memory you don't have to keep cleaning off the slag if the weld pool is a dull red when arcing off of it. I did this with a Century GS155 which is a 105 amp welder with infinate voltage control. I works like it was a 8 step voltage control.
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My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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67ctbug
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Posts: 3624
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| Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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How do I keep it dull with this welders terrible controls? The low setting, I hear is more like high and high is extra high. I used the Iron Man that I can use if I bring my bug over there once and it was the machine I learned to weld on and it was amazing. No slag, beautiful welds, etc.. The only problem is they are $1500 I think next weekend I'll see about bringing it to him for a day or two and knocking out all of the welding I can currently; channels, firewall, re do sections of the pan.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
| ...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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dirtkeeper
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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| 67ctbug wrote: |
I've been using this welder for a few months, and it's pretty bad. Has anyone used this? I'm looking for tips on how to not burn through on everything.
If I weld anything thinner than around 16 gauge it burns through Its bad... |
I have seen this HF welder discussed many times. Some have had decent luck with it. My personal experience was that it worked ok a few times and got worse. I thought my welding skills was the problem but after getting a little bit better unit, a lincoln, , and getting good results from that i realized it was the unit not me.
I think that these units as well as many of their products are not always consistent in quality. My biggest problem wasn't burn through but very inconsistent feed. Now this problem may be exasperated by poor quality wire as noted by others. But as i looked closely at the feed system it seemed to very poor in design and quality. This gave me a poor feed rate, inconsistent, that caused me all kind of grief and trouble. I tried to repair or adjust but the design of the feed was just to poor The thing only cost me about $80 bucks with the coupons and i called it a loss and chucked it. I got the lincoln for a few hundred bucks and have not had any problems .
possible inconsistent feed is causing inconsistent arcing which may be causing your overheating.
I like and use a lot of harbor freight stuff but found this welder not worth it.
Harbor freight MIG 90=frustration poor quality.
Low end Lincoln= no frustration and decent quality |
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beetlenut
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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I second the Lincoln! There are cheap wire feed flux core welders that are cheap to buy, and then there's the entry level wire feed gas welders that cost a little more to get into, but more than pay for themselves with the ability to run .023 wire and have decent controls. After trying bargain wire, I found out pretty quickly that the results weren't what I bargained for! I don't mind paying for the good Lincoln consumables, when it means better results.
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| Wetstuff wrote: |
| ... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
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67ctbug
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Harbor Freight 90 Amp Welder |
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I know it's the welder and not me, I've used a Hobart and I got great welds. I use HF wire and it is 2X more money for half the quality. Unless I find a Lincoln on CL it is not in my budget, the Eastwood 135 is more around where I'm looking. I got this for $35 since it was at the sidewalk sale and didn't sell so it was 1/2 off. I saw the deal and bought it.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016
| KentPS wrote: |
| ...or the PO envied the terrorists' bus in "Back to the Future". |
| mukluk wrote: |
| He's fine, just waiting for the dragon in winklepickers to move out of his lane. |
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