Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly

[c21darrel]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/8_70ghia/18.jpg

From the owners manual...
_________________
GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[rbsurfguy]

[rbsurfguy]

Hi all, Another question popped into my head regarding wiring looms. Wouldn't mind getting some opinions on which type to buy, preferably from those that have tried and/or installed them in their projects. The guy who did the resto on my Ghia, says to stay with a stock set up like the one JBugs sells. Not opposed to staying stock on electrical, but with all the newer components and wanting to modernize somewhat, I have also been looking at the Watson's Streetworks, and Rebel Wire set up from Dub Parts (they look the same). Any suggestions/opinions are helpful, or if there is a discussion forum on full wiring, please send link. I am still searching. Thanks.
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

[kingkarmann]

A long road from the start but it will be worth it in the end.
One thing I wish I had paid more attention to were the rocker/heater channels. It's been 10 years since my Ghia was finished and a small bit of paint bubbling i.e. RUST is forming on the lower left rocker just ahead of the rear wheel. I should have asked my my painter to spray the inner rockers with a rust preventative. Something like POR15 or similar. The offending area is being repaired over the winter. My hope is that this is the only problem area. Time will tell. I would highly suggest that if you haven't already treated the inner rockers that you consider doing it before finish paint.
Thank you for your service and congrats on your Ghia
_________________
"Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”

Mike Gerson

What is your "Bespoke Reality"?

[rbsurfguy]

KingKarmann, thanks for the tip, this is exactly the kind of info I need. Will definitely look at getting some POR-15 inside the rockers, It seems like a perfect place for water to bunch up and sit. Please check in on my thread when you can, as I will be posting lots of questions and can always use advice!
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

[kingkarmann]

[kingkarmann]

[rbsurfguy]

Taking the Vert to the paint shop for estimate and color selection. I want to paint it a dark burgundy color. After going through all the PPG selections, I found a color pretty close to what I want from a 1998 VW/Audi color chart called Mica Red Metallic. It was pretty deep without being purple. I was contemplating a newer color from BMW called Ruby Black Metallic, but have to go to the dealer to get the color code. If anyone has another color similar to what I am seeking, let me know.

_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

[rbsurfguy]

As requested from another thread, the Spec sheet for my publicly ostracized Bergmann built 2332cc motor. Yes I've heard all the rants and read the threads regarding this builder. Motor was built and purchased in 2007, before I joined this Forum and started seeing the negatives. Haven't installed or run yet, so not sure of anything at this point, other than to suck it up and figure out if it's good or bad. We'll see. Will post additional specific pics of the motor for those that can advise on what I need to check before installing. Thanks for any advice.

_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

[74 Thing]

You have to ask yourself what you want out of this engine in the first place-something reliable, something powerful, or something just for show?

There are the problems I see with your engine just from the receipt you have-hyd lifters (not recommended for HP in a VW engine), no specs on anything, based on the compression and engine size I am guessing your deck height is in the neighborhood of .100" which is really inefficient, the heads look like stock untouched 40x35.5 heads with single springs (you should have ported with dual springs shimmed with a good valve job at least, hp/torque numbers are guesstimates, the fan shroud does not cool properly and yours has outlets for heater boxes which is another problem all together.

I'd like to see a photo with one carb removed to verify that the head is not ported (I highly suspect that is the case), and remove one of the valve covers to see if there are even bolt together rocker shafts in your engine and what kind of pushrods. That leads to another question if this engine has been sitting for years did you remove the rocker shafts so the valve springs were not compressed for all of that time?

On the positive side it looks nice.

[rbsurfguy]

[c21darrel]

concur with 74 Thing...and he probably knows A LOT more than me. That's a big motor for small heads and single springs.
It does look nice.

This guy appears to be near you. Maybe you can pick his brain...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=7792

Another Ghia guy building a very nice 2332. Scotty Timmerman has been active and helpful to many here. ...

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=210446

Edit...Just saw your post...
Lifters should be matched to the cam.
Deck height .040 IMO
To keep an eye on cylinder head temp you want a CHT gauge, sender is a ring terminal goes under #3 plug.
Wilsons is a good book. IMO I had a difficult time "getting it" from the book. Reading tons of threads in the Performance forum and all the Aircooled.net technical articles were a bigger help for me in the learning process.
Id be super PO'ed if I were in your shoes. You are taking it well, looks like you are gaining knowledge by the day. props to you.
_________________
GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[rbsurfguy]

Thanks Darrel, will reach out to these guys and see if they can help!

Edit- Just saw your expanded response, thanks for the additional info.
Will look for that gauge/sender CHT
I agree, I think I get more knowledge talking to you guys and reading the tech articles than reading basic manuals.
I was initially more PO'd that everyone was trashing my engine before I have even run the thing, but I get it after reading everyone's experiences and the known problems. Guess I am lucky finding out before I install and run so I can fix before it dumps.
I spent too much time in the SUCK overseas to get to pissed, more disappointed in people and things they do than with material crap....except wasting money!
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

[74 Thing]

Nice looking car-concentrate on your body work/paint etc, and then make a decision what you want to do with your engine.

First off what size are your carbs, and what exhaust do you plan to run, and you should discuss with the engine builder what your tire size will be as well as tranny ratios and the driving type you wants so the cam/heads that are chosen work together?

As far as that Porsche shroud-you will need 4 cht sensors (one under each plug), and a gauge that can handle all four to see what is going on. What the problem is that there are no air directional vanes inside so air flow over some cylinders are nearly zero while over others there is so much air that it is over cooled. Raby did tests on these years ago. A lot of guys run these in Europe and Aus but most use ones with air vanes or have made air vanes so it cools properly for their application. In addition, turning that big Porsche fan robs power-using a smaller crank pulley gets SOME back.

For exhaust, with the size of engine you have if you want to run a heater you need some big bore heater boxes. CSP makes 1 5/8 and 1 3/4 inch boxes (sold through cip1.com), but they are expensive.

You have some options:
1. Run it like it is-you will still need a good flowing exhaust (1 5/8, but more likely 1 3/4 since you will probably change heads and cam down the road). It may run ok, but it will be down on power-no porting on the heads, cam is not a power maker etc.. I will change the valve springs too since if they are compressed they will have lost pressure. The downside is that you may not be happy with the power-some smaller 1914s would give you a run for the money I bet (check out the engine build sticky at the top of the Performance section for some 2332 and 2276 engines and their output or go to CB Performance and check out their site-you will see the difference between what your guesstimate engine hp/torque is and what a solid engines output is).

2. You can sell it and start over

3. Contact someone like the link offered above and talk to them about dropping your engine off to them and having them build something you want. If you use the case then most likely the lifter bores will have to be bushed to accept a VW style lifter, you will need new heads and with performance heads available at CB Performance and Steve Tims that are ported and made to make power it is well worth spending your money there, and I would suggest considering changing the shroud to a VW Doghouse shroud that is known to cool properly. In addition, you will be hoping that the crank assembly and the rods etc are salvageable (I have had other experiences with this engine builder).

[74 Thing]

Here is the engine build sticky

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993

CB's engine builder kits with HP
http://www.cbperformance.com/Builder-s-Choice-Engine-Kits-s/116.htm

CB's heads
http://www.cbperformance.com/Cylinder-Heads-s/37.htm

Tims heads
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1069091


Spend the money on good heads-don't skimp there!!!!

[nsracing]

You guys take it easy on him. He is a veteran who has come home. Say you are sorry and thank him for the service, and I will forgive you.

Jeff - if you mention Bernie Bergman here you are NOT going to find many friends. I must say though - looks like you bit more than you could chew. Nothing like finding the LZ to be in the kill-zone...(figure of speech only).

While it looks like you are in a lot of hurting, there is nothing that you cannot undo and fix both.

I am in Woodbridge. And I work in Fairfax. PM me directly or call my cell. Text anytime.

WELCOME HOME, BROTHER!

[crocteau]

^x2

[74 Thing]

x3

and have FUN with your project and enjoy it when it is done and up and running!

[rbsurfguy]

74Thing, thank you for all the info and the links for me to research.

Brother Peace, no worries Bro, I put myself on the X with this topic and it's not the first time I've landed on a hot LZ. Thanks to you as well, I'll reach out directly.

74Thing, I get everything you are saying and will definitely check the things you stated, and hopefully Peace Sign can give me some local guidance. To answer a couple of your items, the builder, formerly known as BB, told me I should run 1 5/8" header and exhaust, so that was the plan. The carbs are 44 Webbers, HDMX I think, or the other one.

I'll check the underside of the shroud to see if it has veins, if not, I'll figure out how to reconfigure. I actually really like the look of this set up and will see what I can do to ensure air is distributed properly. Will look into the smaller pulley.

As far as selling it off to someone else....not in my nature to dump off something I know is not good and pass along the problem, not the SF ethical thing to do. I'll confront the problem with your help and others here. You guys give good advice even if it is hard to swallow. I just can't see that I may still have to pour a couple more grand into a motor that I have already spent so much on, but if improvements need to be made, then so be it.

I also can't imagine I will really have to replace so many components. I may be naïve, but with all the early year posts/trashing/complaints from the builder posts(early 2000's) and direct complaints from customers, I can't imagine he would continue to pour out trash motors...how can he still be in business? That said, maybe I'll be proven wrong and all that has been said will be true, hopefully not, he may not want to hear from me......,

74Thing, to follow up to a previous request you had regarding photos, you said you wanted me to remove the carb and take a pic. I assume you want me to disconnect it where the manifold and the heads meet so you can see if they are ported, and not between the carb and the manifold? Can you clarify.

Ughhhh, I think I should just spend my money building more guns, at least I KNOW they will work!!

Thanks again all.
_________________
1971 Ghia convertible (Body off rebuild)
2019 VW Atlas 4Motion
2012 Passat-Sold


See my build on The Samba at:
Jeff's 71 Vert Restoration/Reassembly http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

[74 Thing]

Yes, I was thinking once you pull the manifold from the head you can see if the head has been ported. I would pull the valve cover as well to see what kind of head. With single springs I would imagine there has been no porting done at all. The 40x35.5 heads I bought from him were not even blended under the valve seats! I had a learning experience as well. Again, spend money on the heads-at the minimum you will probably have to replace those!

Here is a link on the Shroud (do a search or PM some of the people on that thread for a lot more info)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=372579&highlight=porsche+shroud+vanes