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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:51 pm Post subject: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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Last year I towed my Thing up to Bustoberfest with my TDI Bus. It was great having the Thing as a runabout while we camped. Last year, I used my tow dolly to tow the Thing.
However, I think it would actually tow a little nicer if it was flat-towed. If nothing else, I'd say that I'd save at least two or three hundred pounds not towing the dolly with the Thing. Also, I think it would be slightly less bad aerodynamically.
So I thought about just buying a tow bar. And that is certainly a possiblity.
However, it occurred to me that I already have a tow bar that was built for my '73 Bus.
The Bus was a "Toad" behind the PO's RV. They had a tow bar made up that attached to brackets that were welded to the body just below the bumper. It simply bolts to those brackets.
So I was thinking maybe if I could build something that utilized the same bolts as the front bumper brackets, I could attach this tow bar to that.
Is that a possibility? _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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GI Joe Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2005 Posts: 2012 Location: Athens, TN
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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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My Dad had tow bar attachment points added to the front bumper, and towed it a few times like that.
I have since removed all that rigging, as i don't agree that's it's safe. I had some major damage happen to a '56 Chevy truck, when my uncle decided to just bolt a tow bar to the front frame. Let's just say it was an ugly sight when I arrived to pick up my truck, and took a good welder to fix it.
I would recommend using a tow bar attached to the beam, instead of the body. Those front bumper brackets are just bolted into sheetmetal(which is usually a little corroded and weak anyway).
Just my $.02.
Good luck! _________________ '74 Thing, "Our Thing"....
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=60
'71 Beetle RPU
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8080337#8080337
www.NLEOMF.com
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Captain Spalding Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2005 Posts: 2519 Location: . . . in denial.
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:00 am Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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GI Joe wrote: |
I would recommend using a tow bar attached to the beam, instead of the body. Those front bumper brackets are just bolted into sheetmetal(which is usually a little corroded and weak anyway). |
This is what I've always heard. Only use a proper towbar that attaches to the beam. Here is a pretty good thread on the subject.
JBugs has the appropriate tow bar for $110. |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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Shoot. That is more or less what I was thinking.
I'd rather not spend the money and have an extra thing laying around the garage for something I'll use once or twice a year.
Perhaps I can build something that will allow me to attach what I've got to the beam instead. It'll just take a little more work to put together. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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kubelmann Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2003 Posts: 3266
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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VW tow bars are a standard itme that have gone unchanged for many decades,,, Thye can be found used for $40 all the time new for $70. I prefer a trailer as I have lost more than one VW using the "proven" tow bar. I hate towing,,,,prefer trailering. Enclosed trailering is awesome. One friend drives his car up top on the trialer asn has a small aprtment belwo, Now that is towing in style.,, |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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Hmm, where are you shopping? The new ones I'm finding online are about $115-120. I did find one on CL for $75 but it's at least 2 hours away.
I'll keep those in mind, though as I said if I can not have two very similar items to store, that would be preferable.
I don't think my Bus, even with the TDI, would be able to pull a trailer with a Thing on top of it. Even if it could, I don't think that would be safe for any distance.
And, how did you lose two different VWs with tow bars?? _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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kubelmann Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2003 Posts: 3266
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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Here's a couple pics of what I'm working with.
First the brackets that are welded to the Bus. They are essentially beefy angle iron that is attached to the inner bumper part of the Bus' body. They are welded at the back, and I felt up in there and the front does curl up some amount, though I"m not sure how far up in there.
Here's the tow bar sitting in front of the Thing. It is very beefy for sure.
I'm kind of thinking of some kind of attachment to the torsion bars that is similar to the widely-available tow bars. Then it'll come up to the underside of the bumper where those three holes are.
From there I can recreate the attachment brackets like are on the Bus.
OR perhaps I can utilize the 4 frame bolts like the Thing Shop skid plate does and just always leave it on there. Seems like that way the bumper would be tied into the fame more, and therefore strong.
I'm going to have to go back out and just lay there looking at stuff for a while. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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kubelmann Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2003 Posts: 3266
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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You could put the standard front torsion beam mount on the end of the tow bar you have... |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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Yikes! Yes, I've read that. I think my bar is beefy enough that it wouldn't bend if pushed backwards like I've read about. But I don't think I'd still try it. As long as the Thing runs, it would be so easy to unhitch and fold the bar up (like when the "toad" is being driven) that I'd just do that. I do like that it can be left attached to the vehicle and folded up.
Hopefully if the Thing popped into gear, I'd feel the drag on the Bus and stop to check on things. I do have that risk with the dolly I used last year but so far have been lucky. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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kubelmann wrote: |
You could put the standard front torsion beam mount on the end of the tow bar you have... |
I certainly did think about it, but I'm not sure if the width is quite right to fit on the frame easily. I'll have to take another closer look at that. Could possibly be the simplest solution. Though I do like the idea of being able to fold it up for driving rather than have to take it off. So that is why I was thinking of a secondary attachment to the bumper, and then attaching this tow bar to that. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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kubelmann Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2003 Posts: 3266
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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Bear in mind, the bumper mounts are part of the body not the frame. And these attach points are into sheet metal not frame steel. You must tow from the frame not the body metal. |
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kubelmann Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2003 Posts: 3266
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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I just had a new thought. We got slightly longer frame bolts for our Meyers in Mexico; This gave enough space to add ears on frame head bolts. We use these to rope tow or get towed in our out of sand or an arroyo or whereever we get stuck... BtW You have to try very hard to get our Meyers stuck...But when it gets stuckkk oh my.. You could use these same "ears' to attch your tow bar. But the difference of the old school torsion mount is that it has free space to move around slightly unlike a fixed postion tow bar. |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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Thanks for the thoughts, Kubelmann.
I spent some time this evening under the front of the car looking at things.
In my scrap metal junk pile from other projects I have a big sheet of 3/16" plate that I figure I could use to emulate the Thing Shop skid plate.
In this thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=627050
Germanbilly says he felt that it added enough strength to the front bumper that he was very comfortable towing with his tow bar attached to the bumper.
So my thought was if I made a skid plate like the Thing Shop plate, I could weld two tabs to that to bolt my tow bar to. It would then be pulling from a triangulation from the 4 frame bolts, with the bumper acting more like a stabilizer.
It is hard to say for sure, but I do not think that the Thing Shop plate is anywhere near 3/16" thick, so if I did that, mine would end up way beefier.
But all that said...
Can you (or anyone) tell me the length of those Beetle tow bars from the middle of yolk that attaches to the torsion bar, to the middle of the ball mount?
As I was crawling around, I started thinking maybe I could just build a couple yolks that I could bolt to my bar and attach the bar to the torsion bars after all.
The current bar is approximately 3 feet from the middle of between the bolt holes to the middle of the ball mount. If I lay the bar under the car, the ball mount center is approximately 2 feet in front of the bumper. Is that too close? I do have a ball mount that is a few inches longer than typical, so that could push the car back a bit more.
Here is how much it would sit out in front of the car. Jackson was outside "helping" me.
This is what the section that would have bolted to the Bus frame looks like.
_________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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kubelmann Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2003 Posts: 3266
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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Thanks for sharing your living design... WAYYYYYYY better than buying your way out of a situation.. Design what you have working as you want it to perform. Fabrication is cool. WAYYYYY better than shopping by kilometers.. |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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kubelmann wrote: |
Thanks for sharing your living design... WAYYYYYYY better than buying your way out of a situation.. Design what you have working as you want it to perform. Fabrication is cool. WAYYYYY better than shopping by kilometers.. |
And you were telling me to go buy a tow bar!
In looking around, it looks like the VW tow bars are just a shade under 4 feet from yolk to ball.
I suppose if I make yolks and bolt them to this tow bar, instead of just making a simple U shape, I could extend the bottom out a bit and make it more like a sideways F.
Maybe I'll still make the beefy skid plate at some point., since I have the metal sitting around. _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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kubelmann Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2003 Posts: 3266
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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I was building a house for a guy here in Colorado many years ago. He ran out of money and ended up payning me off in part with a powder blue 71 bug with sunroof.. The reason for the story. Thsi bug hasd been purchased by the guy from the VW dealer in Manhattan Kansas. Small World. ha. |
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vwwestyman Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004 Posts: 5688 Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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Haven't gotten very far on this, yet.
But I had a little bit of free time this evening and spent it crawling under the front end of the Thing.
I was leaning toward just welding up something that I could bolt to my tow bar and two from the front suspension ala the readily-available tow bars.
But I kept thinking about the Thing Shop deflector plate concept.
SO I think what I will do is build a frame out of angle iron that is sort of inspired by the deflector plate. But instead of the plate, it'll be more angle iron, that is triangulated with pieces on the frame.
I think I'll set up the angle iron frame so that I can pretty easily add tabs for the tow bar and bolt it on whenever I want. Then I'll also have captive nuts on the frame so that I can bolt a deflector/skit plate to that frame as well.
I'll be towing from the frame and can use the skid plate for protection. I could even set it up such that I could pretty easily add a front hitch for whatever I might want one of those for--I dunno, maybe a winch! _________________ Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing |
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kubelmann Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2003 Posts: 3266
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:38 am Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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You could make a set of 90 degree brackets with a mounting hole for your tow bar. The brakcets would bolt to the right and left side pairs of frame head bolts just like we attach the front push bar on dune buggies. |
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germanbilly Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2013 Posts: 378 Location: Victorville
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:31 am Post subject: Re: Can I tow my Thing with the Front Bumper (Brackets)? |
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Here is what I came up with. Just got back from a 2,500 mile trip to Yellowstone and the Black Hills. Had no problems at all. All different speeds and many many steep grades. Thing tracked perfect and did not even know it was there except seeing it in the rear view camera. I had tested it on several trips to the beach also.
GB
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=627050&highlight=tow+bar+skid+plate |
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