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7 wire turn signal switch
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babysnakes
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

Why can't I find one in the Bentley? I have a '72 bus and the indicator switch is crapped out. I looked through the classifieds and saw a few "7 wire, 1972 only switch" ads. My bus has a 5 wire as per the Bentley. A well respected/trusted Sambanista found a good switch he pulled from a '72 but it's a 7 wire. To ad even more confusion to the mix, I purchased a NOS 1969 switch for my SC, it's a 7 wire. The Bentley that I own and the technical section on The Samba only show 8 wire ('68-'71) or 5 wire ('72).

Dear Abby, what advice might you have?
Flabbergasted in Florida.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

Dear Flabby,
Have you talked to your switch to find out what's really bothering it deep down inside? Sometimes just telling it how you really feel is all it needs.

As for the number of wires I don't know what the later one would have the bonus ones unless it's a one part fits all replacement unit, the early switch needs the extra ones for the combined brake/signal single bulb tail light fixtures, a 72 has separate signal bulbs so there's no need to work a brake light into mix.
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bsairhead
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

Looked at my Bentley and tech section here. I see 3 and 4 wire early switches not 8 and 5 wire later. No 7.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

If you want to split hairs a North American 68-71 should have 10 wires (maybe 9 if the switch uses the column as a ground, not many do), the 72-79 system (as well as 68-71 Euro models) uses a minimum of 5 wires, 3 for the signals, one for the headlight relay and a ground.
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babysnakes
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
Dear Flabby,
Have you talked to your switch to find out what's really bothering it deep down inside? Sometimes just telling it how you really feel is all it needs.


Laughing Tonights winner!!

I dug deep and found how to hack the 8 wire to work a five wire. You seem to be suggesting VW came out with a (Maybe) universal switch at some point? It threw me for a curve as I spent a lot of time trying to figure this out. No big deal, but the "7 wire" '72 only may have been a fix that might work on other years? Maybe it's an earky '72 vs a late '72.
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

babysnakes wrote:
You seem to be suggesting VW came out with a (Maybe) universal switch at some point?

I have no way to confirm that, it's just a theory. As thier model line expanded space on the shelves in the warehouse must have gotten tight, why not offer a single part that fits 68-mid 74?, include an instruction sheet saying "snip off surplus wires W, X & Y when installing in models built after 8/71" and the bean counters all pat each other on the backs. Signal switches are a high wear item like ignition tumblers and shift couplers, many must have worn to the point of replacement when these cars were still ~10 years old. Or maybe they were a jobber part like all the Dorman stuff for semi current Chevy's, etc...?

Both styles of switch work the same internally, to use an early one with a late system just use the front signal circuit and leave the rear terminals alone. (although they could be used to light the front signals constantly as DRL's, connect the brake wire to a keyed power source and wire the whole system backards {rear in front, front in rear}).
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
although they could be used to light the front signals constantly as DRL's, connect the brake wire to a keyed power source and wire the whole system backards {rear in front, front in rear}.

An interesting concept. My only concern would be the short life of the bulb's 'turn' filament when run in this mode. Adding a little resistance to the brake wire (to drop the bulb operating voltage to maybe somewhere around 10 volts) would solve the problem.
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babysnakes
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

bsairhead wrote:
Looked at my Bentley and tech section here. I see 3 and 4 wire early switches not 8 and 5 wire later. No 7.


Maybe you're looking in the wrong place.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Find "H" near the lower right hand corner. That is the turn signal switch. There are 10 wires. Two are for the horn. The other eight are for the turn signal. '69-'70.
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

Um, aren't two of those eight wires for the high beam relay?

Worst case turn signal wire requirements would be: rf lamp, lf lamp, rr lamp, lr lamp, flasher relay, brake light signal - six wires total. (Later systems would drop one pare of lamps and the brake switch wire. Now you're down to three wires.)

Add two horn wires and two headlight relay wires, and you get a maximum of ten wires. Early models don't have the horn wires going through the turn switch...

With all of these possibilities, no wonder it's confusing! But for a '72, I would think you would need five wires (three turn, two headlight). Unless, the horn goes through the turn switch and not up the column, then there would be seven. Take it apart and look?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)


Last edited by telford dorr on Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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babysnakes
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

telford dorr wrote:
Worst case turn signal wire requirements would be: rf lamp, lf lamp, rr lamp, lr lamp, flasher relay, brake light signal - six wires total. (Later systems would drop one pare of lamps and the brake switch wire. Now you're down to three wires.)]


1973, 3 wires like you said.

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E2 near center of page.
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telford dorr
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

Yup. Bottom line: as long as the switch physically fits, mechanically works, and has enough wires, it should be fine. Too many wires? Snip off (or tape up) the ones unneeded.
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'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

Told ya
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jtauxe Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

Both BusDepot and aircooled.net offer '68-'71 switches with instruction on how to modify them to work for a '72 bus. I just got one for my '72, but have not wired it up yet.
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babysnakes
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

Yep, I found the mod while digging through a shit load of threads. Is you new after market switch 8 or 7 wires? I wanted a good OG switch. My NOS 7 wire is SWF as is the used one I'll be getting any day now.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

The one I got from aircooled.net is the 8-wire version. Seems to be decent aftermarket repop:
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Turn-Signal-Switch-1968-71-Type-2-211-953-513G-p/211-953-513g.htm
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chaddhamilton
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: 7 wire turn signal switch Reply with quote

babysnakes wrote:
Yep, I found the mod while digging through a shit load of threads. Is you new after market switch 8 or 7 wires? I wanted a good OG switch. My NOS 7 wire is SWF as is the used one I'll be getting any day now.


Hey Snakes. I have a 73 with a bad switch. I knew someone has made the 8 wire work, but can't find a how-to on the wiring. Can you recall where you found the thread on this?

Thanks!
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