Eurovan Starter Issues

[Scottn59c]

Hi Guys,

New Eurovan owner here. Just took a trip from the Bay Area to LA and encountered some snags After driving for 100 miles or so and then taking a rest stop, the battery/alternator light came on, and the van started reluctantly and then petered out twice before catching on the third try. Once it started, though, it did not cut out. Took it to a nearby service shop, which looked at the electrical components and advised me that the failing door lock actuator on the driver's side was sucking too much power from the battery. Huh? I guess this somewhat made sense, but upon pulling the central locking fuse and disabling the locks, the same problem occurred two or three times over the trip until the van went completely dead in LA in front of my folks' house. AAA helped me get the van started by tapping on the starter and determining that it had stuck.

So my question to you guys is this: what might be going on? The service shop that looked at it last week said the battery was holding a charge and that the alternator looked good. They didn't say anything about the starter, but I'm thinking that I might have a starter or solenoid problem. For whatever it's worth, the van has only encountered this gremlin when I've driven it long distance; I haven't had any problems locally. If you have any advice or ideas, let 'er rip!

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Farfignewton!

[jjvincent]

The EV is pretty simple when it comes to the charging and starter. Sounds like the place you are taking it to doesn;t want to work on it because their diagnosis makes no sense at all.

A few things to do.
1. Load test the battery (determine of the battery has a short or not).
2. Load test the alternator (this will test the output of the alternator (whould be around 120 amps).

Do that first. There are a number of other things it could be but you need to do a regular old charging system and battery test. Then you can figure out where to go from there. Until that, we can spitball with these items:
1. Bad starter (won;t crank over at all)
2. Bad ground (all sorts of issues)
3. Bad cable from the alternator to the battery (charging issues)
4. Burnt up fuse panel by the battery (charging issues)
5. Wore out voltage regulator (only charging 0-50% of capacity)
6. One diode bad on the alternator (only charging 50% of the total capacity)
7. Battery short (can cause low voltage and thus the immobilizer only allows the engine to run for 1 second)
8. Ignition switch (starts sometimes and sometimes not or other goofy warning lights come on)
9. Loose terminal on the battery (not getting a charge and not delivering the power to start the car)
10 Loose terminal on the starter or alternator (same as #9)

As you can see, there's 10 things we could guess at. Instead of diagnosing all 10, start wit the basic battery and charging test. From there, you can figure out where to go.

[Scottn59c]

Thanks for the great advice, jjvincent. The battery and the alternator were tested and checked out okay. I'll be considering the list you gave me. I think the starter possibly stuck because of a worn out solenoid (based on what I've read around the forum) but I really don't know. The consensus seems to be to replace the starter/solenoid together as a unit. Hate to just start throwing money at a problem, but thinking about replacing the starter. Will probably have to have my shop take a look.
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Farfignewton!

[jjvincent]

A starter issue would not have anything to do with the alternator light coming on while it's running.

[Abscate]

There are two versions of starters on VR6 EVs - one with a 12.5mm shaft and one with a 13mm shaft. Make sure you get the right one.

I got a Bosch (OEM) from a good FLAPS (BAP GEON here in ALB) and the new one was 13, the remanufactured the 12.5/

Mine turned out to be a 12.5, and my 10 year old walked by after I tried to fit it for an hour, looked at it, and said "That metal part is bigger on that one"

She's an artist now.

Take old one into the shop and compare. Its a nasty job on the VR6
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.ssS!

[mvaska]

With the bat/alt test done, I'd still hesitate to buy or replace any parts until I looked at 2, 3, 4, 8, 9, 10 on jjvincent's list. I'd actually work that list in reverse (start w/10) because tapping on the starter certainly points to loose/corroded something in my mind... more so than bad (stuck) starter.

And it doesn't explain the dash light at all. The dash light comes on while running if the volts drop absurdly low (<11). Did the light come on before you turned it off at the rest stop? When starting (this is normal if so)? After starting?

[jjvincent]

[Scottn59c]

mvaska, I was getting the battery light at start up after the van had run for 50 miles or so, was shut off and then started up after sitting for 15 minutes or so. On the third try, when the engine catches and stays, the battery light goes off.

Before the starter stuck, the check engine light had come on and I continued to drive the van for 50 more miles or so (had to!) The next day, I started it two or three times and then it went stone dead until AAA started it by tapping on the starter. Whatever's going on with the starter could possibly be a separate problem from the battery light, but I would think that they are related.

I'll be going through jjvincent's list before I do anything dramatic, and the van doesn't have to be fixed right away since I have no traveling plans right away.

FWIW, I replaced the door actuator this morning.

Thanks to everyone for the good ideas and advice!
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Farfignewton!

[Scottn59c]

Brought the van into my local shop today for an inspection and handed the mechanic a list of ideas culled from everyone's helpful suggestions. Again, a load test was done and the battery and alternator were found to be strong. There are no loose connections or anything obviously amiss. The mechanic was unable to offer me anything new except that the starter does have rust on it (Van was originally out of Wisconsin, but has been in CA for 5+ years)

The problems I had on the last road trip were the battery light coming on and weak starts that only got going after three tries, and the starter got stuck once I arrived in LA, only to be freed by tapping on it with a large rod. Since returning to the Bay, I've encountered no problems driving locally. The starter engages and has been working just fine.

Nevertheless, I don't want any anxiety about traveling long distance - that's why I bought one of these in the first place. It's interesting that the problem occurs only when the engine is hot and I have been driving for, say, 20+ miles. Could the starter possibly be affected by the rust as it gets hot? Some of you advised me to be cautious about replacing the starter because that still might not even be the gremlin causing the problem. With an estimate of $450 or so for the job, I don't want to replace it unless I'm pretty sure that's what's causing the problem.

My local mechanic said to take it to a VW specialty shop to find someone with specialized knowledge. I guess that's the next step. Anybody got any further ideas? Any thoughts on whether or not the rust on the starter is my issue?
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Farfignewton!

[jjvincent]

Put a starter on it. Sounds like that sun gear in the starter is cracked and that's jamming it up. It's made of white plastic and held in at three points with rubber pins. It usually cracks between the pins. Unless you have 10 used starters to rob parts out of (like I did when I was a teenager) just get an exchange unit. The EV starter is really easy to change.

Just remember to really clean the connections on the starter and the ground that goes to the engine while the job is being done.

[gakali]

While you're under there doing the starter install a new voltage regulator/brush assembly in the alternator. Inexpensive, easy to install, and not a bad idea considering your intermittent battery light situation.
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Why do it? Because you can.

1999 Eurovan
2003 A4 Avant 1.8T Quattro
1992 W201 190e 2.3 Mercedes
2006 W220 S600 V12 Twin Turbo 5.5 Mercedes

[Scottn59c]

Just a quick follow-up in case anyone digs this post up and experiences similar issues.

Over the span of the last two months, I replaced the starter, coolant temperature sensor, and spark plugs. Just drove 200 miles along the same route that gave me trouble some months ago, and no problems now. My starter did have serious rust when it was pulled and examined, and I'm guessing that as the van heated up, the corrosion on the starter was affecting the van's ability to draw power.

Another word to the wise - what I initially took to be rough shifts might have actually been the fault of the coolant temp sensor, as the van seems to be shifting all right now. Not all rough shifts are formidable omens of doom for the transmission.

Spark plugs should have been done back at 120k, but now they've been replaced at 125k and all is well.

If anything happens on the way back up, I'll amend my post, but otherwise, it's a good cautionary reminder to complete all the servicing recommended at the different intervals.

Next up for me is a transmission service (by a VW specialty shop), and a brake fluid change. Also not getting cold A/C and need to figure that out before summer.
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Farfignewton!

[Abscate]

Can you guys pass on your starter RR experience. I pulled mine and ot was brutal...ended up with 36 inches of extender in the wheel well.
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.ssS!

[Gruppe B]

Take off the antifreeze tank and use this:
Obstruction Wrenches
https://m.canadiantire.ca/products/productDetail/0582515P/false/false/false

[img]https://canadiantire.scene7.com/is/image/CanadianTire/0582515_1??hei=2000&wid=2000[/img]

[Zeitgeist 13]

Starter question:

The starter on my '01 VR6 auto appears to have died, but I'm having a hard time locating one that appears the same as the one I removed. The curious part is the one I removed uses a support bushing in the transmission, but the versions I'm finding out there have the self-supporting bushing in the starter case and are associated with manual transmission EVs. My starter shaft is 11mm.

Has anyone else with an '01-'03 VR6 auto EV had a similar issue locating a suitable replacement?
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[Joshwa]

Not sure it’s relevant, but my original 93 starter was supported by a bushing in the transmission. My EWB with the diesel is now using the right diesel starter, but is unsupported by the transmission. Maybe the supported shaft type got superseded? Is the old one 2 or 3 bolt mounted?
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93 Weekender TDI conversion (AHU)
93 MV TDI conversion (1Z)
Weekender rear cot
Late model cabin air filter on 93
Euro spec bumper install on 93

[Zeitgeist 13]

It just has two bolts.
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[Abscate]

[Gruppe B]

[JFBx]