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Sears Circling the Drain
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

VOLKSWAGNUT wrote:
So .. Think judging by the last few pages.. any body else feel ... we must all have shit for tools compared to raygreenwood..?? Laughing

Thanks for taking people to tool school.. Laughing

To break all that schooling down.. In most cases.. its all about the surface contact area of a tool vs the fastener.. and its ability to transfer torque without destroying it .. or the tool..

Sure.....when the proper designed tool .. is used for it's given proper designed mating fastener.. they work together flawlessly..... but rarely .. is it a controlled and ideal environment... in the real world..
Lots of variables with materials, quality, and ability..

raygreenwood wrote:
My only problems with Torx bolts/screws.....have been on GM and a few other cars where the bolt plating... blah blah blahh......causing RAPID corrosion of the bolt into the threads.


Yep.. that's the seat belt anchor Torx bolt problems I noted.. that... accompanied with people and their rolling dumpsters.. ... with spills and leakages into the floors of who knows what.. that accelerates the issue substantially..


ok..
So .. Sears who??



.


Sorry...I meant to get back to this excellent thread.....yes....you all have shit tools. Ship them to me and I will save you from embarrassment. You can thank me later! Laughing

Nah...really...I was not suggesting that you guys have shit tools....nor should you spend excessively. Just buy the best you can. I have some cheap tools too...but their limitations are known and respected.

Back on the subject of Torx type tools and bits.......back when I first really started seeing them....mid to late 70's....I too has the opinion they sucked and were the devils work....primarily because all I had that would fit them...were either hacked up allen tools or what could be bought that fit them at local tool houses...and Sears did not have much on the shelf at that point for Torx screws....And...what they had...fit poorly and stripped often.

So the question was early on...is it a poor fit on the screws part or poor fit on the tools part?

As Torx type screws became common and I ended up with complete Torx bit sets...from good quality tool makers like SK and Snap on....I found that the fit on Torx screws really improved.

As extra provenance....by the mid 90's I found myself working on a few other peoples GM cars (where I first saw Torx screws being used)....and got to use my now better tools on those same now 20 year old Torx screws....and found....to my un-surprise...that there was no issue with those screws. It was the poor quality of fit with the original cheap Torx tools I bought back in 1978 or so.

My point?.....on items like Allen keys and Torx bits...what quality you buy STILL has a lot to do with how many issues you DO NOT have.

I can abide by a cheap drop forged wrench...as long as its strong.

However....for instance...allen keys are already at a disadvantage by design in certain high torque uses.
Nothing is more maddening than to strip out an allen head bolt...either because the bolt is crap...and more often than not because the allen wrenches are crap and after a few uses become mangled enough to not fit an otherwise excellent allen head bolt properly. Torx screws have the same issues.

For both allen bits and Torx bits.....if you have the money...nothing beats these...Wiha brand https://www.wihatools.com/torx-tools for high precsion fit and very high strength steel and hardening

https://www.wihatools.com/torx-tools/bits

And their Hex tools are simply the best made...fit, finish and steel
https://www.wihatools.com/hex-tools

The only ones I can afford to own and really need....are the "magic ring" allen keys...simply superb and worth the money...and on sale right now by the way.
https://www.wihatools.com/magicringr-screw-holding-ball-hex-l-key-22-piece-set

If you have never tried them you have no idea what you are missing. I have basically the set listed above for metric and standard.

YES....that is a spring snap ring installed in a milled groove around the ball circumference of the Allen key. Take a look at the thumbnails at the bottom of the page above. It expands outward and holds the bolt...just excellent design and function....oh...and made in Germany.

But for every day best usage allen keys....its hard to beat Eklind https://www.eklindtool.com/ and in second place or actually tied in my book...is Bondhus http://www.bondhus.com/index.html ...both made in USA

Sorry for the long wind....but at least I did not break wind....Ray Laughing
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:


Sorry for the long wind....but at least I did not break wind....Ray Laughing


And even if you did, how would we know? Wink

Thanks for the links to the different allen head tools. I was just thinking recently that it may be time to replace some of my worn out and partly missing sets.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
raygreenwood wrote:


Sorry for the long wind....but at least I did not break wind....Ray Laughing


And even if you did, how would we know? Wink

Thanks for the links to the different allen head tools. I was just thinking recently that it may be time to replace some of my worn out and partly missing sets.


I did just that last week. You know how it goes. I have my daily tool bags that move around between the garage, the house the car for trips etc.

For the past two years or so I have been using an allen wrench set for travel in my tool bag that is a double set.....metric and standard....ball head ...long arm....quite complete with 13 SAE and 12 metric. It was a Husky set from home Depot. It was a good price for decent wrenches.

On my regular Bondhus sets in the bags I had lost a couple, modified a couple, bent a couple.
So on one road trip two years ago..... I bought the Husky set in the godawful fold over, flat, snap together case.

From day one they tended to fall out of their case in the tool bag, they are overly flexible. Not bad allen keys....just inconvenient and not the best.

So last week....I found Eklind on sale at Menards. I bought a long arm SAE 13 piece set, a long arm metric 9 piece set, and the same two sets in short arm....all non ball type but for most things I need outside of the shop where my ball type and my magic ring Wihas are......they are just fine. They also have the classic non nonsense polypropylene holders like Eklind, Bondhus and others have had for ages.

The sae and metric long arms came packaged together for $19.99 and the short arm sets for $2.89 each.....so basically I re-armed by tool bags for $26.....and relegated the ratty set to the spare allen wrench bucket.
I also carry a metric and standard allen socket bit set that fit 3/8" ratchet. The metric is Craftsman....circa early 2000s and the standard are Husky. Ray
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super74beetle
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

It looks like Sears is getting ready to file for bankruptcy. I think it just didn't keep up with the changing times.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45815179
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Zeen
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:09 am    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

Quote:
I think it just didn't keep up with the changing times.


Sears ToughSkins. Reversible, polyester Uglypants. Your knees will wear out before the pants do.
--Tim Allen
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:06 am    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

This was a colossal failure due to lack of management vision and leadership.

The Sears Roebuck catalog used to BE the pre-internet internet. Their stores used to BE the pre-Amazon Amazon. They had the distribution networks, supply chain, floor space (too much, it seems), and the "one stop convenience" of a "mall-in-a-store" inventory choices.

They revolutionized/invented the department store market, and thought that was the end of the retail evolution, and sat on their laurels.

But they failed to capitalize on these strengths, and were blind to the internet for too long, and they never caught up.

It's going to be a sad day when they close for good. So unnecessary!
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
Menards.


One thing I dislike about living in the natural state- no Menards.
Imagine a big box HI store that actually looks and feels like a true hardware store, instead of a bunch of cheap Chunking junk thrown on shelves, that's Menards.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

TDCTDI wrote:
What a total waste of space (Sears too), if they put a zip tie through the big end then the scissors would hang perpendicular to the pegboard & only take up five rows of holes.


I think they're meant to be used, not just stored.
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doregan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
This was a colossal failure due to lack of management vision and leadership.

The Sears Roebuck catalog used to BE the pre-internet internet. Their stores used to BE the pre-Amazon Amazon. They had the distribution networks, supply chain, floor space (too much, it seems), and the "one stop convenience" of a "mall-in-a-store" inventory choices.
!


Seems like they made one wrong turn after another. For years they carried everything, even fertilizers and 35 mm cameras and lenses, some of which were quite good. They bought and sold a major investment house (Dean Witter, I believe) and an insurance company (State Farm?). Even owned Lands's End. Could not figure out what they wanted to be.

I always liked their hardware and some of their house paints (no longer sells paint). Their auto department was decent for a while and they usually carried a good selection of tires.

Their WWW presence pretty much sucks. I tied to buy a new shop vac a while back and they had it on sale on the WWW site for like $69. But to pick it up in the store was like $89+tax. WTF? Have bought plenty of mowers from them though.

They are an anchor store in our local mall. We just lost one anchor store and I hope we so not lose Sears.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:42 am    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

doregan wrote:
Seems like they made one wrong turn after another. For years they carried everything, even fertilizers and 35 mm cameras and lenses, some of which were quite good. They bought and sold a major investment house (Dean Witter, I believe) and an insurance company (State Farm?). Even owned Lands's End. Could not figure out what they wanted to be.


One of the dumbest things they ever did was Discover Card.

They spent decades making sure that everyone in America had a Sears credit card, I remember they had people at the bottom of the escalators waiting to sign you up. It was everyone's first credit card, and as soon as you got one you went to Sears and used it. The day I got mine I went there and bought a color tv and microwave (still have the microwave almost 40 years later). If you made your payments they raised your limit and you went back and bought more stuff.

So they had millions of loyal customers, and some genius decided to send them all Discover Cards. Now those loyal customers could go anywhere to charge stuff, and they did. They gave away those customers for a short term bump in profits, and they never got them back.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

The Sears radials were rebranded Michelins, really good tires. Appliances were pretty well done, too. Their tool, hardware, and garden sections were great... that's what OSH became, and Sears messed that business up, too. Soon both will be gone. We don't have small hardware stores anymore, so it's Home Depot or Amazon now, and neither is good for what I used to get at Sears.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

Ace Hardware has been kicking ass lately and they have many small town stores. We have two here in my area, and I buy from them regularly.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

Sears was the only reason I ever went to the mall over here. Mowers, hand tools, auto batteries, appliances were all good quality. Now that the Sears store is gone, I don't have much reason to go to that end of town.

Lowes is now stocking Craftsman hand tools (and Ace Hardware is too) and they seem to be adding to the selection every day. They don't seem to be any different fron what Sears was selling the last few years. I have 3 Lowes stores that are closer to me than the Sears store was.

I think Sears was trying to sell off the Diehard and Kenmore brands too. So although Sears will probably disappear, some of the brands may live on.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
Ace Hardware has been kicking ass lately and they have many small town stores. We have two here in my area, and I buy from them regularly.


I've seen recent TV ads where they make a thinly veiled reference to OSH closing. Unfortunately, we don't have a good one near us. The closest has some of the worst reviews I've seen... racist, vindictive employees and some of the rudest behavior I've seen. The next closest is about 20 miles away! Maybe they will take the opportunity to open one up now that OSH is closing nearby.

I'll have to check Lowes... about 10 miles away but I like Craftsman... however, part of why I like Craftsman tools was that I could order parts and repairs at their service center, and I bet that closes, too... devaluing the brand even further.

I guess do-it-yourselfers are a dying breed... no retailer seems to be aimed at them, just the contractor at the big box/contractor stores.

So now all we can do is buy cheap Chinese crap and throw it away when it breaks. BAH!


Last edited by KTPhil on Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
Ace Hardware has been kicking ass lately and they have many small town stores. We have two here in my area, and I buy from them regularly.


I have two Ace stores near me, both closer than any Lowes or Home Dept.

However, every time I go into Ace, they don't have half the stuff I'm looking for and I have to go elsewhere.

Sometimes I don't know why I bother going in there in the first place. Actually, I do - proximity.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

scottyrocks wrote:


Sometimes I don't know why I bother going in there in the first place. Actually, I do - proximity.


I think "proximity" is really important, actually. If I need a tool, or a car battery, tires, or whatever, I generally need it now - not next week.

Around here, Sears long-since stopped swirling around the drain, it's disappeared down the drain. And I miss it.

I'm not sure how much stuff Sears "made", vs "rebranded"... And I don't think I care. They sold a large variety of "pretty good stuff" for a "pretty good price", and that's all a lot of us needed... And still do. The Snap-On truck doesn't stop by my house, and I can't justify spending their prices to change a spark-plug on my Ghia every year or two, or the Subies much less frequently. But Sears sold something that did the job fine, for my purposes, for most of the tools I found myself without, or for the tools that went missing... I didn't even have to think about it, and there were always a few stores that were a short, easy drive away from anywhere I was... But no longer.

I'm tired of being channeled into the limited selection that HD and Lowes forces you into - that's what we have around here for tools and hardware, now that Sears is gone. I like Ace because they actually sell "hardware" - if you need an odd screw size, at HD and Lowes you're out of luck. Ace will probably have it. But they barely have any Ace's in Northern VA any more, because you can't make money for NoVA rent, selling odd-size screws. (We used to have a "Sears Hardware" store nearby, that sold an Ace-like variety of hardware, and an excellent selection of "pretty good" tools... Sigh...)

Basically, a lot of what Sears sold, is no longer "proximal". I have to go to the internet, and wait for the delivery. Or chase around, hoping to get lucky in some other store.

This seems to be part of a vast "hollowing out of the middle" that seems to be going on. But this is starting to venture into conspiracy theory domain, and Sears didn't die because of any conspiracy. They died because they didn't understand how retail worked, any more.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:01 am    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

Since I worked for a "SearsAuthorized" business for 16 years , I've got an investment of Sears stock as part of a 401k.!m Good thing it's only $337 worth remaining, the balance is S&P 500 thankfully! I feel for those who may lose out , pension or otherwise, but at least my bus hasn't lost value yet!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:02 am    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

It's official. Sears filed for bankruptcy this morning.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/14/business/sears-...2Fbusiness
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

Nah yyeah, I'm over here in Germany, so I've nothing to do with it, but when I heard it was going bankrupt and that lots of it's main brands were being spun off, the first thing I thought of was pillage and plunder. Then I hear that it's being run by a billionaire hedge fund manager. So, power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. My assumption now is he's ripping the company apart for his own profit. Every time you see them closing 'unprofitable stores', you know it's a slippery slope. The expenditure goes into the winning solutions and these are spun off for personal gain. The carcass of Sears will then be left to the government to shore up in an effort to save jobs.

This is similar to the thing Michael Dell did. He let the shares go dodgy, bought back the company and hacked out the unprofitable bits. However, I think his pride in his own business knowhow is going to bite him in the arse. Dell is also not an innovator. It's a box shifter with pretty much all innovation outsourced to China. Their services division is mainly vapourware and R&D is not a focus. The company failed to partner and acquire when they should have. Now, hidden from the public eye, the fat cats will try strip it. I reckon Dell will close or downsize soon enough because it's just not got the right corporate attitude and it's management is just backstabbers with no balls.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Sears Circling the Drain Reply with quote

True, but the guy has thrown in something like $1.6B to keep it afloat over the years, and expects SOMEthing back for his investment. Can't say I blame him.
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