Which one is the proper NSU type 32?

[allsidius]

Speaking about convergent evolution, the 1939 Hanomag!

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1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image

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[GArBa]

also worth mentioning, the 1937 lancia aprilia:

_________________
cars:
'97 type 1 1600i
'14 type AA Seat Mii (sadly dead after 270.000 km)
'22 type C1 T-Cross
'23 type AC3 Hyundai I10 (VW no longer makes small cars!)
-------------------------
moped:
'82 Benelli Magnum 3v

[79SuperVert]

Great thread. I've enjoyed reading it. Thanks to all.
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Central Jersey VW Society

Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt.

[allsidius]

Thanks Supervert.

Regarding convergence, what about the Lincoln Zephyr, based on the Briggs Dream car. Ferdinand went to see Henry Ford in 1937, and I am pretty sure he was picked up at the dock in a brand new, cutting edge (design only, the mechanicals were still Model T-ish) Lincoln Zephyr. Following this visit, Erwin Komenda received a cable instructing them to ditch the rear hinged doors and install a split rear window, which was top fasion in Detroit in 1937. The split rear window arose out of necessity as the bodies became more and more rounded at the rear from 1935 on, so a full width straight glass would have to be smaller and smaller, which is cool now, but a safety issue then.

Although many US manufacturers had adopted the split rear window, we know that Ferdinand spent a lot of time with the Fords. Henry being an anti-semite, was more than willing to help uncle A with his plans. I am not going to bring up Ferdinands political views here, but Henry was really helpful, advising on tool purchases (the presses) etc. Ferdinands men also spent the time coercing german immigrants to the US, with car manufacturing experience, to come back to Germany to help with the brand new factory. I do not think Henry would have looked kindly on that activity, if he and Ferdinand hadn't got on just fine.

I also think this was the time Ferdinand began thinking about ditching the plans for using standard 7" headlight units and opted for the tilted units the beetle eventually got and used for 30 years. I have never found out if those units were custom designed for the beetle, or if it was a brand new "standard" design that just had come on the market. Any light on this subject is greatly appreciated. As can be seen on my previus post, the Reutter wooden mock-up had standard upright 7" headlights in W30 style pods at first (nov 1937) which were thankfully revised for the production style before the V303 prototypes were made. Notice that they are hand crafted for the display, they are not actual headlight assemblies, which makes me lean to the theory that they were developed for the Beetle.

(Note the ridiculously narrow tires, this was really going to roll lightly on the Autobahn.)

A lot of other makes used this assembly or variants of it, the slant angle of the bucket became sort of an industry standard. Here are the headlights of an Adler Autobahn, launched in 1937, with what appears to be the same angle and the same perimeter, although the glass is flat and not convex.

_________________
1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[Lars B]

Ford had slanted lights from 37-39 (it was really in then), then the government made a law stating all cars should have 7" Sealed beam lights.

That's the reason Ford 40's have a BIG Chrome ring with the sealed beam mounted in. Since they already have made the tools to make the fenders.

The law was abandoned 1957, and that the reason for all small double light's on the 1958 cars.

Ok It does not have anything to with the VW's

[Blue Baron]

Actually those small quad headlights were also sealed beams. Even the rectangular headlights of the '70s were sealed beams. The U.S. didn't abandon sealed beams until well into the 1980s.

It is unclear why sealed beams were adopted universally in the U.S. in 1940. It could be for universality, or safety, or maybe some large company such as General Electric had a friend in Congress.
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We are striving for perfection, to make our cars run forever, if possible.

Heinz Nordhoff

[Lars B]

[allsidius]

[GArBa]

I remember reading an interview in which Giugiaro clearly stated that his original design for the golf called for rectangular headlights and VW executives pressed him to switch to the round ones, allegedly for "family feeling". Giugiaro of course knew all along it was because they were cheaper.

That said, a lot of Giugiaro's most famous designs in the '70s and '80s ended up using rectangular headlights with similar front treatments (VW scirocco, DeLorean, Lancia Delta, Fiat Panda, Fiat Uno, Seat Ibiza...). the golf stands a bit out thanks to its round headlights (well, to be fair, also does the Delta integrale... )

But I went OT. sorry.
_________________
cars:
'97 type 1 1600i
'14 type AA Seat Mii (sadly dead after 270.000 km)
'22 type C1 T-Cross
'23 type AC3 Hyundai I10 (VW no longer makes small cars!)
-------------------------
moped:
'82 Benelli Magnum 3v

[allsidius]

So we managed to locate all those cool forerunners of the Type 60, but a couple of drawings are missing. Does anybody have any drawings of the actual Reutter steel-bodied car, ie. the one that actually still exists? It is pretty clear to me that this car

was not built to this drawing:

It is way less elegant, the side windows have the droop (if you count the air intakes), the front fenders are much more sculpted, the front windshield is much less raked.

There are a lot of sketches of similar fastback Porsche designs out there, but I have not yet seen a drawing of something similar to the steel bodied NSU.

The same goes for the Drauz car no 2, which seems like a transition between the Drauz no 1, the dark and dirty car, and the stodgy Reutter car. Where are the drawings?

Any enlightenment is surely appreciated!
_________________
1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[allsidius]

Once again, I beg to answer my own question..

"Die Käfer-Chronik" by Bernd Wiersch of VW museum fame has this interesting drawing of the third NSU typ32 prototype. It was supposedly made by Karrosseriewerke Weinsberg in 1933.

So how does this car fit in? Is there a fourth car? Was it ever built? Is it the car we called Drauz no 2? It has forward hinged doors, like the car we used to call Drauz no 2, its overall profile looks a bit similar, but the rear side windows look more like the Reutter car, and the front fenders are simpler in shape. Maybe an early proposal?

Wiersch claims there were 3 distinctly different NSU prototypes, all made in composite steel and wood construction. He does not distinguish between the Drauz car (dark and dirty) which seems to be made in the DKW fasion, plywood and fake leather, and the Reutter car, all metal, or at least all metal outer skin.

Wiersch's book is not very exactly written, he mixes up the Drauz and the Reutter car, claiming the survivor is made by Drauz. I would have believed him, if it wasn't for him claiming that this car had integrated headlights from the beginning! This is clearly not the case, as we have seen in this thread. Wiersch's book is nowhere as exact as the Birth of the Beetle by Barber.
_________________
1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[allsidius]

In lieu of opposition, I dare the following conclusion. Three distinctly different NSU prototypes were made by three different coachbuilders, Reutter, Drauz and Weinsberg.

This sketch, by Karosseriewerke Weinsberg in 1933,

was modified and ended up in this car.

The reason I think they belong together, is the door hinged at the front, the slant of the windshield and general proporsions. During detail design, the side windows assumed the much more Porsche-like quarter oval design.

This sketch, by Porsche presumably,

Ended up as this car by Karosserie Drauz,

Only known from this photograph so far.

And the last car was produced by Reutter, to hitherto unknown drawings, and still exists in slightly modified form.

Drawings and more pics of the unmodified car is surely wanted!

This thread yielded a lot of information, hope everyone else enjoyed it as much as I!
_________________
1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[IIIA-0426]

Bear in mind though that this car was photographed outside the Drauz bodyworks....

[IIIA-0426]

Note the G. DRAUZ sign in the background....

[allsidius]

[IIIA-0426]

Here you see the writing in high resolution.

[allsidius]

Thanks, I see it now.

But I still feel there is a possibility that it is the Weinsberg car taken to Drauz for reference, but maybe it is a long shot.

To be continued...
_________________
1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[allsidius]

I checked the geography of three coachbuilders and found something interesting.

NSU was based in Neckarsulm, only about 4 miles north of Heilbronn, where Drauz had their shop. Weisberg, where the eponymous Karosseriewerke resided, forms a triangle with the two towns, just 4-5 miles to the east from each. There is just 3.8 miles between the town centers of Heilbronn and Weinsberg. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to assume that the "Weinsberg" type 32 could be used for a trip to the Drauz workshop and be photographed there. After completion, it probably resided as a test vehicle for some time at NSU in Neckarsulm.

Porsche worked in Stuttgart. Reutter was in the same town, just across the street. There is about 35 miles from Stuttgart to Heilbronn.

It seems perfectly reasonable that Porsche and NSU decided to purchase three different bodies from three different companies, and that the two local companies relative to NSU headquarters would be asked to submit proposals.

This is all speculation of course, but it if the theory could be confirmed or falsified, we could be one step closer to the full history of the type 32!
_________________
1973 1303S w sunroof Click to view image
1978 1303 convertible (sold)Click to view image
1966 1300 RIPClick to view image

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[IIIA-0426]

I have been studying the Type 32 on and off for over 15 years and have amassed a fair amount of documentation, photos and plans - although one can never have enough. I also have a very nice copy of the Weinsberg drawing.

The general consensus of which bodywork company built which body, according to the "experts", is largely based on a letter that was written on 12 January, 1957, by Karl Rabe to Fritz von Falkenhayn. The letter was written on the occasion of the anniversary of the Reutter company.

In the letter the key dates of the Type 32 project are mentioned, and Karl Rabe writes:

"Nach meinen Aufzeichnungen war die Karosserie bei der Firma Reutter mit Blech-Holz-Grundaufbau und Kunstlederbezug ausgeführt, während Drauz eine Ganzstalhblech-Ausfuehrung mit aussenliegenden Scheinwerfen lieferte." The letter makes no mention of Weinsberg.

The first contact with Drauz was made on 6th April 1934 and Reutter followed shortly thereafter.

The Weinsberg drawing was dated earlier (29 November 1933) but interestingly makes direct reference to NSU, rather than to a specific Porsche project. This and the fact that Weinsberg are not mentioned in the Rabe letter may suggest that they were commissioned directly by NSU.

[paulymx]