Solid state 6 volt regulator

[Bug-nut]

Hi guys! I'm needing to replace my voltage regulator on my 1959 6 volt Beetle and I was wondering if any of you have ever found/used a solid state 6 volt one instead? It would be even better if it would fit inside the existing original style regulator. I know it's easy to find a solid state 12 volt regulator but I'm not having much luck with a 6v one, except for a custom built (and pricey!) unit. Mind you, I'll probably just go with a NOS original one instead but I'm just exploring my options. Thanks for your help

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1959 Fjord Blue Volkswagen Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

1962 Austin-Healey Sprite

[herbie1200]

For what I know there are no 6V solid state car regulator, only models for motorcycles (search ebay) which manage only 15-20A.

I'm still trying to modify a Bosch 12V solid state to work at 6V, and I'm at about 50%.

Now voltage regulation is OK, I'm working on the current regulation.

The original 12V bosch is a two-section unit, the upper (diodes and power devices) can be used in a 6V car; the lower has to be completely rebuild, because circuit is sealed.

Advantages of a solid-state regulation:
- no "return" current
- better voltage stability

Not many people knows that return current on a 6V system is an issue; at idle and before full charging operation a lot of current (~10Amper) flows from battery to the generator just for mechanical regulator inefficiency.

[sjbartnik]

I had these guys at Clover Systems build me an electronic 6V regulator.

http://cloversystems.com/products/other/dynamo-regulator/

They were able to build it into the original Bosch housing so it looks stock from the outside. It was a tight fit but they made it work. Now that they have experience fitting their electronics into the small Bosch housing, they could do it for you, too.

Additionally, it was reasonably priced.

It has been working flawlessly for months so far.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Q-Dog]

This guy has a solution if you don't need it to look stock. Might also be able to make something custom in an original regulator case.

http://cloversystems.com/products/other/dynamo-regulator/

(edit: someone beat me to it!)
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Brian

'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle

[Bug-nut]

Thank you all for your quick responses! I believe I'll check with cloversystems and see what they can do for me. Also sjbartnik I sent you a PM. Thanks!
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1959 Fjord Blue Volkswagen Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

1962 Austin-Healey Sprite

[hazetguy]

Contact Rick Clark through one of his ads. He might have one available.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1254162
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hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money

[Bug-nut]

Thought I'd give y'all an update on what I've learned so far. I got ahold of Gordon Rudd at Cloversystems.com and unfortunately they no longer are able to offer the regulator conversion service (not enough time and manpower for the demand) However they still sell the actual regulator units, so tonight I bought one and plan on gutting my stock (broken) Bosch regulator and installing the guts of the solid state one into it so everything looks stock on the outside. Mr Rudd answered all my emails very promptly and also sent me several documents on how to install the system in existing regulator boxes and also a nice wiring diagram. I'll update this thread with more updates and pictures when it arrives.
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1959 Fjord Blue Volkswagen Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

1962 Austin-Healey Sprite

[Bug-nut]

Alright guys, I have a pretty big update for y'all. I believe I've found one of the best ways to have my cake and eat it too! My 6 volt solid state regulator arrived in the mail the other day and I was able to modify everything and get it all hooked up and working. Yay! I've not been able to get out and drive the VW a lot yet (between lots of rain, work, and trying to finish cleaning up and painting the new-to-us house... ugh, I don't care for painting... ) however I did take a voltmeter and checked the output both with and without all the lights on (high beams included). At around half throttle and up, the voltage reading stabilizes at and holds an extremely steady - 7.42 volts. (If that's too low or too high for you, both the voltage and the current is adjustable via small potentiometers on the board) Also it stays charging down to a lot lower of an rpm now than it used to. And the best part, the regulator looks completely stock on the outside! I'll continue testing this setup and let everyone know how it holds up; overall so far I'm incredibly pleased with it. The modifications needed weren't too terribly hard but it is a tight fit getting the circuit board and the heat sink to fit inside the Bosch cover - some trial and error might be needed. Perhaps I should buy several old broken regulators and do the solid state upgrades and offer them to fellow 6 volters for my cost? Would anybody be interested in that? For those of you who'd like to give this a try for yourselves, contact Gordon Rudd at cloversystems.com. It cost just over $100 for the board and shipping from California, for what you get that's a steal in my opinion. Alright, picture time!

The resistor wire has been disconnected, I left it on the frame just for looks

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1959 Fjord Blue Volkswagen Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

1962 Austin-Healey Sprite

[herbie1200]

For what I see that regulator is very sophisticated.

If I remember clover description they use:
- a HALL sensor to control generator current
- an "ideal diode", to emulate cut off contacts. A normal diode drops 0,7 volts, that at 30A are 21Watt; a schottky diode drops ~0.2 volts (6-7watt); an ideal diode drops 0,0..volts, so remains almost cold

A circuit like this needs a lot of testing and developement to gain automotive certification.

I designed and build my personal solid state regulator with those limitations:
- current is not regulated
- used normal schottky diodes

And only after 2-3 prototypes I have reached an affordable solution.

I've been inspired from the BOSCH 12V solid state schematic, converting it to 6V.

[sjbartnik]

[Mr.Duncan]

I'd be interested in getting one.
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[tasb]

Iwould be interested in two of them. I could provide the housings.
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Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[Bug-nut]

Thank you everyone for your interest! I must admit I've not gotten a chance yet to really get out and drive my VW for several long trips and see how it holds up - my fiancé and I just bought a house and between all the repainting and moving furniture, etc, I've just not had the time. I would also like to mention that I can't make any guarantee yet as to the longevity of this regulator setup. I believe it will hold up just fine, it appears to be a robust unit and installed properly it should give a long service life, but I cannot swear to it without a prolonged testing period. Just wanted to get that out of the way. If you are still interested I'd be more than happy to add you to the Solid State Regulator testing group I am in the process of buying a few cores off eBay right now, and have sent Mr Rudd an email regarding building me several more regulator boards. It would take him about a week or so to get them to me, because he builds them to order. I will keep everyone posted on my progress, and also PMs have been sent to all who have asked about these. Thanks for your support and interest!
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1959 Fjord Blue Volkswagen Beetle
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...highlight=

1962 Austin-Healey Sprite

[Danwvw]

That's really cool, Lets hope they hold up, They should if the voltage output is about 7.5vdc or a little less.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[herbie1200]

From what ī see the cloversystem regulator is rated only up to 30 amperes but beetle's generator puts out up to 45 amperes.
So in this arrangement there are 15amperes (90 watts) no more available... Am ï right?

[Wayne S. Johnson]

I posted this a few years ago:

This is my ALTERNATOR REGULATOR prototype, built in 1974. It ran for about 10 years without any problems. Over the 10 year test period, the ambient temperature range was 25° F to 105° F. The regulator is designed to allow the alternator voltage and current limit to be adjustable. It’s the only solid-state alternator regulator with current limit, which is for output diode protection.

6 volt generator regulator issues:
The goal is to package a solid state regulator in an original mechanical regulator case. The alternator regulator circuit was used for a 6 volt generator prototype. The main issue is with the revers current diode the heat dissipation. Looking for the lowest forward voltage rating of a Schottky diode rated at 30 A we find the specification of 600 mV @ 30A. The power while operation at full current is W=30X.6 which is 18 W. The thermal path included 1.5° C/W R JC, 1.5° C/W R CS, 20° C/W R SA (without the regulator cover), total = 20° C/W add the ambient temp at the generator of 50° C the total is 20x18+50 = 410° C which is almost 4 times the max junction temp.

Update:
The diode issue can be resolved with the implementation of a FET switch. The on resistance of several FETs in parallel can be 3 milliohms or less. The voltage with 3 milliohms @ 30A would be less than 100 mV, which is 300 mW.

Package outline for dog house mounting:

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[bluebus86]

[EverettB]

You could light a candle and drip candle wax on it.
This is how the horn adjustment screw was sealed.
Maybe some regulators too, I don't have one to check but the one in my Bus did seem to be sealed with wax before I opened it up.
Here's an NOS one I posted a while back to see how it was sealed

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[bluebus86]

[herbie1200]

OK OK but my question is still unanswered.

Stock 6V generator can produce up to 6V-45A (~270W).

When using a 30A regulator watts available drop to 6*30=180W.

This is not good; 90W are dropped out. In some condition you need all of 270w available: high beam (90W) + park lights (30W) + engine (~20W) + turn signal (42W) + stop light (42W), you have no residual current to charge battery.

If the 6V30A regulator is well working it should drop voltage when more than 30A are requested... so your 45A generator is used under of its capability.