2276/86b beetle daily

[sled]

just curious, what deck height and compression were you running?
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drive your split.

[evanfrucht]

[UK Luke 72]

[challomoner]

[txoval]

He buys the shims from your side of the pond I believe. PM him and I’m sure he will let you know. He is a great guy

[UK Luke 72]

Thanks for the heads up on the shims. I already have a pile from James at Stateside tuning... If I had to guess, likely the same source Tabari uses.

Interesting he offers spring steel or stainless steel. Think all of my stash are spring steel.
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[UK Luke 72]

So everything is stripped and cleaned ready to go back together once I have the heads flowed and rebuilt.
I had a basic port job done on the heads 20 pages ago to kinda cover up from a bad amateur job they had before I bought them. I don't have the eye to know if the ports are any good but I thought I'd blend the valve seats into the port walls a little better. The guides came super long into the port too, so I've trimmed around 3-4mm off those. Looked alike a choke point.

They will be flowed at 10" up to .55"

Cam and lifters are perfect (FK10 and Engles phosphate coated lifters)

Clutch looks barely used, not bed in enough to be contacting eith the pressure plate of flywheel uniformly.

Oh and I've dropped in a dist drive so I can go sequential

Just waiting for an extended oil pickup tube so I can button up the case.
Old one wasn't too difficult to get out, a few whacks with the hammer. Hopefully the new one will go in ok with a bit of sealer on it.
Will I be able to use as std strainer now?
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[UK Luke 72]

Cb extended oil pickup tube fitted.
Cleaned the OD where it goes into the case with some 80 grit, cut the extension and angled it toward the rear corner of No4 cylinder. Should always be oil there. Deburred.
Tapped and wiggled it in with Loctite 641 retaining compound and secured the m6 nut with 241.

Please with how that went tbf.

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[UK Luke 72]

Short block built up today.
Curil T on the case halves.
RTV on the cam plug.

Deep sump fitted, this time I used the black RTV where it bolts onto the case, used Curil T last time and it didn't do so well.
The pickup is about 8mm off the sump plate but given that it's slash cut its around 20mm at its furthest. About where the band on one was.

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[Alstrup]

Its gonna be interesting to see. I´ll be surprised if they flow above 170 cfm @ 25" (Apprrox 107 " @10")
But I like to get positive surprises.
The theoretical choke point of a 42 mm valve is 0,578", so they should really be tested at least to 0,575" IRL they will most likely plateau at around 0,550-0,560" due to the small seat ID.
Have him test the exhaust side too and measure port flow veloctity. I´m pretty sure he has the tools to do it.
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[UK Luke 72]

Is the only fix going to be larger seats or can they be attacked with a die grinder to good effect?

I figured seeing as I'm only lifting to ~0.540" there was little point going higher. The plan was to go and see him today but then realised in bank holiday here so will be middle of next week now I guess.
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[Alstrup]

Yes, the seat can´t be fixed. It is too thin and will need replacement.

In a sense you are correct. But if "we" know how the port behaves a little over max lift along with port volume, it is somewhat easier to predict how the engine will behave. But I´m quite certain that Alan will give you a crash course in that when the time comes.
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[UK Luke 72]

Sat around 86.5% valve to throat ratio.
88-90 is ideal right?
Is it a ridiculous idea to trim the valve down to 41mm?
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[Alstrup]

No, the idea is not ridicoules, but I doubt you will gain much, if any. At least not if the valve to chamber relation is ok. I believe Brian E tested a little around exactly that subject some time back. He may chime in. Also, IMHO the percentage is not really valid at all sizes. with small valves it is not enough and with large valves it is too much. I work much more with how much is needed to make a proper seat. Then I vary the seat ID after what type of engine I am building. For instance, for a bus engine that should pull torque over the last few ponies up top I like a seat diameter of - 4,5 mm to valve. For street engines for Beetles, buggies, weekend warriors etc I am usually around -4,1-4,2 as is a good deal of other people. For all out engines with high valve lift and high rpm you can go as low as about - 3,25 mm. but that low requires the 30-33 degree angle to be wider than normal, like at least 3 mm. and the chamber shape becomes crucial if it is to work properly.

Edit.
To illustrate a little about it i can refer to some Coventry engines of which we have built a few over the last couple of years. Those engines are only 1460 cc in this configuration and pulls 104 BHP in stock form. We were chasing power, and driveability since it is a street legal track car (1956-62 I beleive) Stock valves 35 x 32. Performance valve set up 37 x 33. In this case I opted for -4,25 mm in order to get the "best of both worlds" as it is a relatively small engine, with a relatively aggressive cam. Then we had the cam ground on a semi tight lobe separation (105 degrees) Ported cylinder head, 10-1, dual 40 DCOE´s header etc etc. This resulted in almost 130 hp @ 6700 and 145 Nm peak torque with more than 120 Nm over 3500 rpm. Decent for a small engine that can be used with good fun on the track too.
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[UK Luke 72]

Thanks for the info as always.
I'll just see what Alan says, he might have some suggestions.

Stay tuned.
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[UK Luke 72]

Decided to have a little go at the manifolds.
Quick refresher on these, I bought them off a mate who had done a home brew wedge port on them with the mofoco heads.
Pretty badly but made 160bhp on them.

In the first picture, this is how they were. 2nd picture shows where I have removed around 1.8mm. This was a pretty obvious choke point before it opened up to the flange then down again towards the valve.
Now from around 1/3rd up the manifold down to the flange is about as even as I can get although it does definitely flare open a little at the flange. Would need welding to remedy

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[UK Luke 72]

[Brian_e]

If you have an ID snap gauge you can use it to get an idea of the sizes in different spots. The manifolds are looking good. The slightly larger area at the flange is not usually a problem, and some times it helps slow the air down so it's able to make the turn into the bowl easier. It helps the air stay attached. From here, it looks like the throats just before the seat ring could use some work. I agree with Torben's current flow estimates.

Have you measured the port volume yet? I like to measure the volume, and centerline length, and then with the flow CFM, you can calculate the average port velocity. I have found every set of heads I built over 270ft/sec average pull REALLY hard. Lots of torque, even with smaller than usual valves. Lately I have been shooting for 280ft/sec. Just for reference a stock 35x32 head is about 250ft/sec stock, and an off the shelf AA500 is about 240ft/sec.

ALWAYS flow the heads with the manifold on. It will change the number drastically without, and the engine will never be running without the manifold.

I am eager to see what you guys can come up with. Does your guy have local velocity measuring tools?

Brian
Brian
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[Alstrup]

What Brian said.
Yes, with manifolds.
Max flow will occor above 0,500" if the port and seat is decent. Slightly dependant on which formula you use the theoretical choke point is Somewhere between 12,7 & 14,7 mm. So in best case scenario it will keep on improving until 0,578". It wohnt, but if we take best case scenario for a 40 mm valve it will stop improving at 0,555". For comparison my super stock heads based on AA500 castings keep on flowing to 0,530" with a 37,5 mm valve.
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[UK Luke 72]

Thanks guys.
I was using internal calipers to even all 4 out, used them as a go-no go and ground out accordingly.

I will get a port volume taken over the weekend when I get them built up again. I'll have to Google how to get the centreline length, not sure if I'm tooled to be able to do that.

Is there anything I could do with the valve throat before I get them flowed or best just to see what we're working with and leave it as is?

Currently lifting the valve to 13.59mm. I appreciate they'll never match what you two can do with a pair of heads but I'd like to make the most of what I have.

Adding sequential spark and fuel to the mix will hopefully bring some improvements too
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