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2276/86b beetle daily
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UK Luke 72
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

Perhaps. It was on a Maha 4wd rolling road if that means anything.
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

Time for new heads?

I know it is a tough decision, but if you put it together as is you will be pulling it apart in less than a year to change the heads more thank likely.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

From where I am sitting, the cross section in that first pic looks just barely larger than a stock port. I don't see that being a 160hp port.


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Brian_e
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

74 Thing wrote:
Time for new heads?

I know it is a tough decision, but if you put it together as is you will be pulling it apart in less than a year to change the heads more thank likely.


I don't know....My 40x35 heads are real similar to his in average air speed, port volume, and flow numbers. A 2276cc, 9.5:1, and a fk8 size cam, they are amazing driving engines. Probably the best all around I have built. Loads of torque everywhere, super easy to drive, and they just seem effortless in a bug. The FK10 might give up a touch of low end, but that might be made up with more compression.

I say go for it and see what you think. If you get bored, then get a set of custom built heads that are made exactly for your displacement, and driving style.

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UK Luke 72
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

Brian_e wrote:
From where I am sitting, the cross section in that first pic looks just barely larger than a stock port. I don't see that being a 160hp port.


Brian


Thats almost exactly what you said 4 years ago Very Happy
And I can't help but agree.
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UK Luke 72
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

sled wrote:
those dyno numbers sound kinda fishy



In his full trim street car and cage it ran a 13.4 at 158 km/h or 98mph

Wallace calculator puts it in the ball park.
I assumed 2100lbs
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UK Luke 72
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

I have manifolds and more VW Speedshop goodness Very Happy
A set of IDFs which suit a range of throttle bodies from 38 to 54mm and then 2 sets of the VW speedshop manifolds to suit their efi45 kits which start at 45mm.
One set is larger than the other

Ready for some port matching and dynoing.

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Last edited by UK Luke 72 on Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

Looking forward to the results. Get er done!
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UK Luke 72
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

I'm trying! The other half keeps reminding me we have a wedding in 3 months that isn't planned yet though!

Heads are now built back up, here's a gasket cut for a.proper CB wedgeport overlaid onto my ports


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terryly
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

yes sir
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

even "in hand" I can't very well eyeball the size of ports or manifolds.
I started using measuring sticks about 10 years ago and they unlocked a lot of mysteries.
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UK Luke 72
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:09 am    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

I've heard of those... you suggesting they might be of some use?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

To add to the discussion about whether 36 ITB´s are sufficient for such an engine or similar..
Today we had a cylinderhead on the flowbench anyway, and we were a little interested to see how a maxed out spanish 40 mm IDf with a CB upgrade kit, tapered top and bell mouth 1½" stacks. (34 mm Venturies) would perform against a 44 mm IDF w. stock 36 mm venturi.
The bottom line is the maxed out 40 IDF 70.
The middle line is the 44 IDF.
Test were at 28"
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

It was interesting to learn that the maxed out 40 IDF flows juust about the same as an Italian 40 IDF 68/69 and a little shy of a 40 mm Alfa Dellorto´s. Also, that the update kit and to a slight extend the bell mouth stack does increase carb flow around 16 cfm over a stock 40 IDF70 with 34 mm. venturi. This again verifies what i have been saying for years, that unless we are talking type 3´s with very low aircleaners, the update kit is only worth its weight if the carburettor is maxed out or just about maxed out already. If that is the case, you can pull another 10, 15 hp tops out of them.
It was also interesting to learn, and verify, that the flow numbers on the 44 IDF were very close to a default chart I have been using for at least a decade.

With that in mind, and moving the numbers across to a 36 mm TB you would be around or possibly above 375 fps to be able flow enough to 170 hp. That´s absolutely possible, but,,,, below 6000 rpm it will be a challenge. The difference between actual flow and piston demand is large. You need "motorcycle" rpm to do that. Lesser displacement and more rpms basicly.
If you have a large plenum under the TB, like f.i. a CB universal manifold that would help IRL because that will act somewhat as a pressure revery zone. Question is how much. I thinbk there is only one way to figure that out.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

Car has been driving nice, I have an interior in there now so no earplugs required anymore Very Happy
Mapping is certainly getting closer, until POP!

So I made a b line to our most notable hill in the area late last night, just to give the rings some more hell before dropping the break in oil and switching to my preferred synthetic. Pulled right to the red line and coasted then a plume of smoke. Not sure if it was the smoke I saw first or my gauge flashing at me but I still had 10psi when I shut the engine off. Coasted to a halt and got my mate in his T25 to drag me back.

I'm using Aeroquip fc598 hose with Torques fire sleeve. The hose is rated to 150ºC/300ºF and the sleeve is 260ºC/500ºF continuous.
The exhaust primaries are wrapped too.

Obviously this wasn't enough. The rubber there is hard and brittle
Stainless braided Teflon doesn't appear to handle the heat any better. Looks like the only option is to re route




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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

Opinions vary, a lot! but I absolutely hate those Aeroquip this and that. Every single time we see people with hose problems it is that type or one of the copies. - but they look fancy.
Buy once, cry once. Go to your local Dunlop Hiflex store and get some low pressure fittings with hi temp steel reinforced teflon hoses. (½", and low pressure because they have the right I.D.)
In my 20+ years of using those I have never seen or heard about one fail.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

The push-loc style of hose has worked very well for me.....even though it is only about an inch above the header pipe.
I put 30,000 miles on the first set of hoses and only changed them out because I was going on a 3500 mile trip......so....just because.

Use a swivel fitting on each end and it makes it so easy to remove and replace.
They aren't that fancy looking but they do work well in my experience.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:36 am    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
Opinions vary, a lot!


You hit the nail on the head. I've always used it and never seen a problem, and this failure is because of it's proximity to heat not a failure of the push-loc. That said, I can't afford a repeat, I was lucky that it popped in the middle of nowhere and late at night, so collateral and recovery was simple enough. Could've been on a busy ring road on my way to/from work.

Will weigh up my options as far as getting the oil in and out of the engine bay and likely spend a bit more on heat management
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:24 am    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

I've push lock not braided but quality hose on one car , never had an issue ,hoses are years old , oil never gets over 90C .
The other has braided hose with the shiny stuff . eBay hose . I was very lucky had a hose let go at home idling while I opened a gate ,just after driving home from work , 5 minutes before and I would have been highway speed . The hose went over the top of the trans linking 2 coolers . It had just got brittle , well away from any real heat and the oil never goes over 90C .
replaced all the hoses with genuine aero Flo , . If these get brittle ,I'll go to pushlok non braided hose .
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UK Luke 72
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

Yeah I don't have an issue with the pushloc style of fitting. I think it's quite slick and functional. I don't like bling, that said, it doesn't like heat obviously.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: 2276/86b beetle daily Reply with quote

Your picture above made me go pull the heat sleeve back off my hoses, they look as new thankfully. What heat sleeve you using?
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