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EasternNotch Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2006 Posts: 633 Location: Boston Metro West
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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:20 am Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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Cool write up! Wish I had this years ago when I first replaced the broken windshield in my Notch...and then again when I forgot the chrome strip before putting the glass in the car
I have to say my wife and I got pretty good at putting the windshield in, but I'm pretty sure she won't be too shaken up about being replaced by a ratchet strap _________________ 1964 Notchback
1966 Squareback
1969 Type 34 Ghia
1969 Fastback
1989 Doka AFN TDI |
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luckystiff Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005 Posts: 2252 Location: hickory,nc
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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silicone spray is not a good idea for lube here. simple aerosol window cleaner will do the trick. silicone WILL cause problems in the long run with moisture retention.
and if you do this semi regularly get a coupla big suction cups like you see windshield guys using. and wiggle the glass instead of slapping it..........
I do this for a living. Trust me........... _________________ ITMC
Secret Service |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22384 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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Tram wrote: |
When they're good- they're GREAT! When they're not, they make me want to quit what I do and become a stripper or something.
It's OK, we have to take the good with the bad on substandard VW parts- it's an industrywide issue. I seriously doubt you guys have your own molds and pour your own seals. But please don't insult us when we have an issue like we're some sort of beginners who don't know what we're doing. All products have their issues from time to time. Deal with it. |
I agree with you George, I've had some good ones, and some bad ones. A good one is the Cal Look seal kit I got from ISP, that was too large for the windshield opening. Everyone on here thought I screwed up when welding the car together, only to just swap out the ISP seal for a WCM seal and everything fit like it was supposed to. The rear window seal from that kit fit like it was supposed to, as did the side glass.
I don't know if I could imagine you being a stripper though. That might be too hard on the eyes. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2226 Location: 11222
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Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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Is this ISP seal the way to go now? Tram installed one on my car in 2013 and it has ALWAYS leaked despite ample silicone applied everywhere. It rained all day yesterday and I put some paper towels in the heater footwells to see how bad the leak was getting through the corners of the windshield. Here's what it looks like almost 24 hours after it stopped raining:
Believe it or not, the ISP seal leaks worse than the OEM did before replacement. So if the quality of the ISP seals hasn't changed, is the West Coast Metric one the best bet nowadays? I'm really not interested in doing a heater channel replacement in a few years on account of shitty window rubber!!! |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21498 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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Just a couple of quick notes. Windshield gaskets are made of EPDM.
EPDM.....should not be subjected to ANY type of petroleum. It works well with glycols and specific types of alcohols like denatured alcohol....but has issuea with common alcohols like isopropyl.
This is the same material as brake cylinder seals.
So....no vaseline.....no WD-40....mainly because of its carrier solvent and propellant. Be very careful with things like Armorall...because that contains solvents to penetrate vinyl.
Even short exposure.causes softening of the surface because its breaking it down. Yes....it makes it easy to install but it leaves the surface open to attack.
Here is a good list of several rubber types including EPDM and what chemicals they work with and dont work with.
http://mykin.com/rubber-chemical-resistance-chart
Stick with a simple soap and water (not something like simple green which is far from simple or green) or....silicone. Pure silicone.....not "tire shine" silicone because that has solvents in it. You can buy this at drug stores.....or buy pure silicone grease.
And whatever you use.......go on line and Google its MSDS/SDS sheet. It costs nothing, takes minutes.....and look at the ingredient list. If it list isopropyl alcohol or petroleum distillates do not use it. Ray |
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luckystiff Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005 Posts: 2252 Location: hickory,nc
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Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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raygreenwood wrote: |
Just a couple of quick notes. Windshield gaskets are made of EPDM.
EPDM.....should not be subjected to ANY type of petroleum. It works well with glycols and specific types of alcohols like denatured alcohol....but has issuea with common alcohols like isopropyl.
This is the same material as brake cylinder seals.
So....no vaseline.....no WD-40....mainly because of its carrier solvent and propellant. Be very careful with things like Armorall...because that contains solvents to penetrate vinyl.
Even short exposure.causes softening of the surface because its breaking it down. Yes....it makes it easy to install but it leaves the surface open to attack.
Here is a good list of several rubber types including EPDM and what chemicals they work with and dont work with.
http://mykin.com/rubber-chemical-resistance-chart
Stick with a simple soap and water (not something like simple green which is far from simple or green) or....silicone. Pure silicone.....not "tire shine" silicone because that has solvents in it. You can buy this at drug stores.....or buy pure silicone grease.
And whatever you use.......go on line and Google its MSDS/SDS sheet. It costs nothing, takes minutes.....and look at the ingredient list. If it list isopropyl alcohol or petroleum distillates do not use it. Ray |
NO SILICONE either............
OF ANY KIND. not needed and ANY type will cause problems. I do autoglass for a living. SprayAWay spray can glass cleaner...... it is the SAME stuff I use at work all day other than the label on the can. If you don't want to spend $4 on that then slightly soapy WATER. I prefer the glass cleaner as it foams up and "sits" in the pinchweld longer than soapy water will. and if it dries up a quick blast and you're back in business...........
if you have a leaking ill fit seal bedding compound can be your cure. any auto paint supply house should have it. stays gummy and bonds between seal and body. comes in a tube like caulk......... _________________ ITMC
Secret Service |
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luckystiff Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005 Posts: 2252 Location: hickory,nc
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Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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if you guys could see the crap i've had to deal with that people tried to stop leaks with.............
all forms of caulk/silicone........ bondo.......... 2 part epoxy........ roofing tar.... WAX.......... _________________ ITMC
Secret Service |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21498 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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luckystiff wrote: |
raygreenwood wrote: |
Just a couple of quick notes. Windshield gaskets are made of EPDM.
EPDM.....should not be subjected to ANY type of petroleum. It works well with glycols and specific types of alcohols like denatured alcohol....but has issuea with common alcohols like isopropyl.
This is the same material as brake cylinder seals.
So....no vaseline.....no WD-40....mainly because of its carrier solvent and propellant. Be very careful with things like Armorall...because that contains solvents to penetrate vinyl.
Even short exposure.causes softening of the surface because its breaking it down. Yes....it makes it easy to install but it leaves the surface open to attack.
Here is a good list of several rubber types including EPDM and what chemicals they work with and dont work with.
http://mykin.com/rubber-chemical-resistance-chart
Stick with a simple soap and water (not something like simple green which is far from simple or green) or....silicone. Pure silicone.....not "tire shine" silicone because that has solvents in it. You can buy this at drug stores.....or buy pure silicone grease.
And whatever you use.......go on line and Google its MSDS/SDS sheet. It costs nothing, takes minutes.....and look at the ingredient list. If it list isopropyl alcohol or petroleum distillates do not use it. Ray |
NO SILICONE either............
OF ANY KIND. not needed and ANY type will cause problems. I do autoglass for a living. SprayAWay spray can glass cleaner...... it is the SAME stuff I use at work all day other than the label on the can. If you don't want to spend $4 on that then slightly soapy WATER. I prefer the glass cleaner as it foams up and "sits" in the pinchweld longer than soapy water will. and if it dries up a quick blast and you're back in business...........
if you have a leaking ill fit seal bedding compound can be your cure. any auto paint supply house should have it. stays gummy and bonds between seal and body. comes in a tube like caulk......... |
Yes....agree. if its a normal fitting seal....no silicone should be needed. But if you have to use something slippery in the corners.....at least silicone will not hurt the rubber. Ray |
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Bliss13 Samba Member
Joined: July 28, 2009 Posts: 185 Location: Northridge, Ca
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Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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Thanks for the write up, and good job. Wish this was up before I had you guys do all my windows. Btw, mine came out perfect. I have had zero issues with leaks or gaps on the fastback. _________________ 1970 Sundial Camper
1973 SubaBeetle
1986 Vanagon Syncro |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2226 Location: 11222
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:06 am Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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There have been some interesting installation and leak prevention tips posted since yesterday, but I wonder if anyone has an answer to the question I posed: Is the ISP West seal now a reliable and leak free seal or is another vendor selling a better one?
I ask b/c the one installed in my car by Tram in 2013 has been nothing but leaky. I know that sometimes vendors change their producers and I wonder if the current seal sold by ISP West is an improvement on the one they were selling 4 years ago. |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33948 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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December 2013 they installed their seal in my '71 Fastback. It fit well and doesn't leak a drop. I drove it in several downpours to test it; bone dry. Same for hand washing with garden hose. |
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Tangerine Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2016 Posts: 41 Location: North Central Arkansas
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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D/A/N wrote: |
There have been some interesting installation and leak prevention tips posted since yesterday, but I wonder if anyone has an answer to the question I posed: Is the ISP West seal now a reliable and leak free seal or is another vendor selling a better one?
I ask b/c the one installed in my car by Tram in 2013 has been nothing but leaky. I know that sometimes vendors change their producers and I wonder if the current seal sold by ISP West is an improvement on the one they were selling 4 years ago. |
It looks like the answer to your question may be "it varies". I'm hoping I got a good one for the upcoming install on my Sq Bk. Time will tell. _________________ 68 Variant FI
71 SB Sedan
73 SB Cabriolet |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2226 Location: 11222
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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KTPhil wrote: |
December 2013 they installed their seal in my '71 Fastback. It fit well and doesn't leak a drop. I drove it in several downpours to test it; bone dry. Same for hand washing with garden hose. |
Mine was installed in August of 2013 and never didn't leak. Maybe I'll have to give them another try. Was yours the kind with the trim channel? That's what mine is...I seem to recall posts from a few years ago that the ISP Cal-look seal was a better fit.
Last edited by D/A/N on Tue May 16, 2017 3:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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stonecoldcars Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2013 Posts: 265 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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Just installed all my window seals from ISP west. Was very happy with fitment, but haven't tried any rain testing yet. So I guess I'll have to report back after testing. _________________ My build thread(The desert Rat). http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653395 |
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D/A/N Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010 Posts: 2226 Location: 11222
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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Tangerine wrote: |
D/A/N wrote: |
There have been some interesting installation and leak prevention tips posted since yesterday, but I wonder if anyone has an answer to the question I posed: Is the ISP West seal now a reliable and leak free seal or is another vendor selling a better one?
I ask b/c the one installed in my car by Tram in 2013 has been nothing but leaky. I know that sometimes vendors change their producers and I wonder if the current seal sold by ISP West is an improvement on the one they were selling 4 years ago. |
It looks like the answer to your question may be "it varies". I'm hoping I got a good one for the upcoming install on my Sq Bk. Time will tell. |
Yes, I guess it varies. In posts going back 5, 6, and 7 years it still varied. I was just wondering if something consistent has been figured out either at ISP or among Type 3 owners about who was making the best windshield seal right now. |
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luckystiff Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005 Posts: 2252 Location: hickory,nc
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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am I wrong in thinking the "molded corners" seal that they currently sell were a revamped design 3-4 or so years ago?
I'd have to think that a call to ISP might answer some questions. I know it's different situation but we had a VW caddy come in the shop recently that we had put the windshield in almost 15 years ago. had been fine forever. a few months ago the guy started seeing leaking in heavy rain........ despite the time frame, WE FIXED IT.
the bedding compound I mentioned above works wonders. you can also shoot a bead of windshield urethane like we use on newer cars shot behind the gasket. you will NOT have leaks after that but should you ever have to change it again it's a HUGE pain to clean up. _________________ ITMC
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luckystiff Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005 Posts: 2252 Location: hickory,nc
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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but I do have to say when compared to the damage it can lead to the price of a new seal is CHEAP even if you pocket it yourself......... _________________ ITMC
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Donnie strickland Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009 Posts: 2403 Location: Moody, AL
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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The issue with my ISP seal wasn't that it was leaking behind the seal -- it wasn't. Mine went on very nicely and laid down nice and flat, even in the corners. But it leaked between the glass and the seal. It was as if the groove in the seal was simply too wide for the glass, and the water came around the glass (this was new replacement glass). I used Permatex Flowable Silicone as Tram recommended, and it's been dry ever since, and that's been two years now.
I should also add that a year ago I replaced all four of my side window seals and the back glass seal, all with ISP seals. Those are all still bone-dry, but the seal material was very soft and supple, and fit very tightly on the glass, unlike the windshield seal. _________________ 71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22707 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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Donnie strickland wrote: |
The issue with my ISP seal wasn't that it was leaking behind the seal -- it wasn't. Mine went on very nicely and laid down nice and flat, even in the corners. But it leaked between the glass and the seal. It was as if the groove in the seal was simply too wide for the glass, and the water came around the glass (this was new replacement glass). I used Permatex Flowable Silicone as Tram recommended, and it's been dry ever since, and that's been two years now.
I should also add that a year ago I replaced all four of my side window seals and the back glass seal, all with ISP seals. Those are all still bone-dry, but the seal material was very soft and supple, and fit very tightly on the glass, unlike the windshield seal. |
Come to think of it D/A/N, we got one of those thinner replacement windshields for your car, too. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33948 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 10:47 pm Post subject: Re: How to: ISP West Type 3 Molded Corner Windshield Seal Install |
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D/A/N wrote: |
KTPhil wrote: |
December 2013 they installed their seal in my '71 Fastback. It fit well and doesn't leak a drop. I drove it in several downpours to test it; bone dry. Same for hand washing with garden hose. |
Mine was installed in August of 2013 and never didn't leak. Maaybe I'll have give them another try. Was yours the kind with the trim channel? That's what mine is...I seem to recall posts from a few years ago that the ISP Cal-look seal was a better fit. |
Yes, it included the chrome trim. |
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