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Summer 2016 Barndoor find
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Blue Baron
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

The Rascals Cats wrote:
Pretty nice score ... amazing story...

I may be the only one who isn't surprised. Back when I lived in the North, we went on many VW hunts in Canada, and tripped over barndoor buses all over the place, but this was more than a decade before Classicfab, and the demand for rusty hulks wasn't there yet. I predict there will be many more finds like this, because Canadians didn't throw things away, and permafrost preserves things. I also know the easiest way to find an old VW is to be seen with another old VW. Don't let this surprise you. They are out (up) there!
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CaLiBus
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

retroel wrote:
Thanks! I still can't believe it almost!

Haha Trevor and Josh, as far as I know I have one originally from each BC, AB and Sask. The milk delivery panel was sold new in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan and came to Alberta in 62/63?, the Kombi was in BC until 92 and the window panel has been in AB the entire time.

Here you go, I imagine the local bodyshop did this as the bottom seat brackets were taken off and painted over, nice little floor mat and the heater and choke? controls were moved as well.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


us swivel guys almost thought this was the smoking Gun ..
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Barndoor Mafia
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

Trevor P wrote:
Just so you know we are building a wall...and Alberta will be paying for it. "Lets make Sask great Again!" Laughing


That was hilarious Trevor!😀


Riff Raff wrote:
I tried real hard to be the Garrick Kombi's next steward, but it didn't work out.
I am real pleased that you wound up with it though

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Love those gaps between the doors and doglegs!!


Bummer Kieth!

Congratulations Retroel! Awesome score and great story. Like I tell everyone ..... they are still out there!
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bally
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

Any progress on these amazing finds? Cheers, Dave
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cory464
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

CaLiBus wrote:
retroel wrote:
Thanks! I still can't believe it almost!

Haha Trevor and Josh, as far as I know I have one originally from each BC, AB and Sask. The milk delivery panel was sold new in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan and came to Alberta in 62/63?, the Kombi was in BC until 92 and the window panel has been in AB the entire time.

Here you go, I imagine the local bodyshop did this as the bottom seat brackets were taken off and painted over, nice little floor mat and the heater and choke? controls were moved as well.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


us swivel guys almost thought this was the smoking Gun ..
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



look a little closer at the picture guys. this factory photo does show a very narrow wheel well (count the ribs) and also does show the seat hanging out over the side. the mount is pushed out to the edge.
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cory464
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
It's very cool that it was converted.

Factory?
I feel like the factory would not allow a seat to hang over empty air.
I do like the big handle to release the seat.

That seat is foam-filled, maybe it was done later, unless it was recovered.


look at the photo of the factory swivel. count the ribs. this seat is in the same location as the factory seat.
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cory464
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
GTV wrote:
cdennisg wrote:
EverettB wrote:
It's very cool that it was converted.

Factory?
I feel like the factory would not allow a seat to hang over empty air.
I do like the big handle to release the seat.

That seat is foam-filled, maybe it was done later, unless it was recovered.


Probably/definitely not a factory swivel seat, but possibly a swivel seat made from a walk thru by a somewhat skilled craftsman?


I don't think it was a walk thru. Drivers pedastal is far too narrow. Check out the other pictures of Bob and you'll see a host of differences. The workmanship just looks better that what we're used to seeing on old VW's.


Agreed. On second look, that is now obvious to me.


look again. the factory photo of the swivel seat is the same width. (count the ribs)
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Lowdown Dirty Rat
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

As much as I would LOVE this to be a surviving Barndoor swivel seat I afraid it isn’t.
Look at the rust staining on the drivers Side plate. There is the blatant mark of the front curve of a full width tool box. So not even a walkthrough originally.
Still very cool though!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

Per this loose translation of the 1953 Transporter Interiors Brochure (Preface - 2nd photo in the following attachment) of which this swivel seat is listed (20th pic - left to right), a swivel seat would not have been a "factory" option (at the time),

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/transporter_interiors_german.php

Skipping the first paragraph as it is just a sales pitch.

"This catalog contains a selection of individually designed interior fittings and thus shows how versatile usage possibilities are found in the VW Transporter's design. In the VW Transporter for every business man, and unimaginable variations for almost every economic branch of industry, which offer an even better, faster, more gentle and economical, even cheaper transport than ever before.

The interior fittings and superstructures presented here as examples are not provided by Volkswagenwerk (“the factory”). They were partly manufactured in specialized workshops, partly in the workshops of the VW organization, on behalf of the proprietors; the individual manufacturers' companies are shown in the following examples, on request, by the co-workers and handlers of the Volkswagen Works, who have been advising, assisting and assisting each other in the past with their highly trained personnel."


I can't read German but how this is translated via Google Translate and how I interpret it, barndoors would have come off the assembly line as is, delivered to a dealer, and if the customer would have picked one of the BD interior options in the brochure, the dealer would have been responsible for adding the option/conversion (at least in the barndoor era).

Thus, the reason why the tool box markings would still exist on this model - it was done by a dealer and the reason why no one has ever found a "factory" BD swivel seat.

Seems to make sense from a business model perspective for VW to design it this way as well. They were probably unsure of the demand for such options, experimenting at the time to attract as many buyers as possible without retooling their own factory and slowing down production while having a relatively new, enthusiastic dealer base that bought into the idea as another way of selling more vehicles. Most of these early dealers, as far as I can tell, had more than one name plate at the time so most likely already employed skilled craftsman.

When the time came and the swivel seat became more popular and worth it to bring it in-house, they gave it an M code and made it a factory option.


Also, besides the number of ribs being the same on the pedestal, check out the location of heater knob (same place between the pic and the graphic).
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

cory464 wrote:
EverettB wrote:
It's very cool that it was converted.

Factory?
I feel like the factory would not allow a seat to hang over empty air.
I do like the big handle to release the seat.

That seat is foam-filled, maybe it was done later, unless it was recovered.


look at the photo of the factory swivel. count the ribs. this seat is in the same location as the factory seat.


It doesn't look like that to me.
A photo of the swivel seat from the door side would be more revealing though.
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cory464
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:35 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

Lowdown Dirty Rat wrote:
As much as I would LOVE this to be a surviving Barndoor swivel seat I afraid it isn’t.
Look at the rust staining on the drivers Side plate. There is the blatant mark of the front curve of a full width tool box. So not even a walkthrough originally.
Still very cool though!


i'm just saying that there are a lot of things in the picture that look right. i agree not a walk through, but this is finished to a much higher standard than normal and i think it is worth taking a much deeper look at.
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Lowdown Dirty Rat
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:45 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

VW have often done that. Let others work out the flaws and assess the market before producing it themselves, look at the double cab.

But if this was a ‘dealer’ option I doubt it was done new. It would have taken some time for that Rust to have developed before the tool chest was removed.

For my own person curiosity I have always wondered about some of these rarer options, like the swivel seats and BD walkthroughs. I know there is original VW literature showing VW offered them. But always thought it odd that they have only ever been discovered in North America.
I have never seen a picture of a swivel seat or bd walkthrough in or around the vw factory.
Maybe they were dealer options supported by VW?
Have any swivel seats ever been discovered outside the US/Canada?
Is there literature with them in in many languages?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

I agree there are so many details that seem very nice and make us think it is OG...

.. But it looks like this bus has had the top metal section of the toolbox for a couple of years, as shown by the circles below :

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cory464
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
cory464 wrote:
EverettB wrote:
It's very cool that it was converted.

Factory?
I feel like the factory would not allow a seat to hang over empty air.
I do like the big handle to release the seat.

That seat is foam-filled, maybe it was done later, unless it was recovered.


look at the photo of the factory swivel. count the ribs. this seat is in the same location as the factory seat.


It doesn't look like that to me.
A photo of the swivel seat from the door side would be more revealing though.


i tried to show what i am seeing a little more clearly. i agree that more photos are needed. also, ripping the nasty upholstery off would tell a lot more as well.

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Lowdown Dirty Rat
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:13 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

Looks like the heater knob was nicely moved. But the choke is still through the floor. Seems an odd place. Both are moved forward on a BD walkthrough even though a walkthrough still has a little tool chest.

Would love to see some more pics of the discovered swivel seat though. It is well done.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

Lazaa wrote:
I agree there are so many details that seem very nice and make us think it is OG...

.. But it looks like this bus has had the top metal section of the toolbox for a couple of years, as shown by the circles below :

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


yeah, you are probably right.thanks for the clarification.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:51 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

^ as I had said 😉 thanks for making it clearer Florian.

Surly the best thing to do is ask the original owners. The milk company that are already keen to share what they know.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

To add some additional suspense take a look at these two photos written 1955 - year of the bus. One is the original photo that is on this site and the other is an enhanced photo. Most likely taken March-May.

Open the second photo on a large computer screen. Look through it the front windows of each barndoor. The company was nice enough to leave the front cargo door of each bus wide open, must have known all these years later we would be searching. Lots of light through those windows where the bulkhead should be. Doesn't look like bulkhead is in any of them especially with angle of the picture. The Divco all the way to the right has to be a swivel seat as well. What better company to own a swivel seat than a milk company.



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

Lazaa wrote:
I agree there are so many details that seem very nice and make us think it is OG...

.. But it looks like this bus has had the top metal section of the toolbox for a couple of years, as shown by the circles below :

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I don't know if I agree with this synopsis either since the dove blue (in the circle) would have worn differently on either side of the original weld of the tool box if taken off at a different time. That patina'd dove blue on either side looks aged exactly the same to me.

And the rust is consistent with the rust on the front side of the pedestal. Just a high traffic area with your foot constantly hitting that area, especially with a swivel seat.

Then the rust under the handle makes sense too. Again, high traffic area with your hand always hitting that space when reaching for the handle release.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Summer 2016 Barndoor find Reply with quote

gr8vw4sale wrote:

And the rust is consistent with the rust on the front side of the pedestal. Just a high traffic area with your foot constantly hitting that area, especially with a swivel seat.

Then the rust under the handle makes sense too. Again, high traffic area with your hand always hitting that space when reaching for the handle release.


It does make sense but what about the 10mm rust line on top of that that match the line of the toolbox chest ?
One point that would make me think it is OG is the floor mat section that match an original front floor mat by it's size, ribs...Etc and I don't see a coachbuilder go that far on the details of his build. Rolling Eyes
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