Need tips on swapping a 091 and 2.0 into a 74 Bay

[gleason]

Ok, read and searched last night but couldn't find what I needed. I have a 74 that the previous owner pulled the 1700 out of and put in a 1600 upright. The engine didn't have the performance that I was after with that tranmission. I did a little research on what might have been done to make that 1600 fit. It seems like they didn't cut the shaft off the tranny so I thought it would be ok. I had a 2.0 built for it with the hopes it would work with the 3 rib. I guess that the 2.0 clutch/pressure plate doesn't fit in the bell housing of the 3 rib as it's deeper. So I don't have a straight forward swap as other things have changed the setup before me.
Can something be done with the 3 rib to allow the 2.0 to fit? I guess I want the best cruising speeds I can get with that engine. Flywheel i.d. the same to allow the smaller 210mm I think in that flywheel?
I have a 091 out of my 77 that I lost to fire, and would like to put that in. I know it should bolt up fine to the 2.0, I'm just wondering if that assembly will fit into the 74. Do I have to find a different shift rod for it? Will the nose cone need to be change to allow it to be bolted into the frame?
Has anyone here done this change (i'm sure there is) that can steer me right? I don't have the 77 shift rod any longer.
Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[aeromech]

2.0 type 4?
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[timvw7476]

I have no idea if this info will help you, but I used an 091 with '74 1800cc
clutch housing, '74 clutch, (the 215mm or some such, NOT 228mm)
it all fit fine with stock '74 shift gear, although third gear ending up
bringing the shift knob real close to the ashtray. Also swapped the 002
input shaft to the 091 gearbox. If you already have these pieces, it's
mix and match on the garage floor. Pretty sure there is a procedure
on the samba to get the shifter perfect, mine was okay for me, didn't
rap my knuckles on the ashtray or anything, & I liked the idea of being
able to go back to stock set up.
Just remember the bottom engine studs go with each clutch housing,
there is a difference in reach between the 002 & 091 stud set ups.

[Wildthings]

To run a 228mm clutch you need a 091 bellhousing and the starter that matches the bellhousing. You can swap the 091 bellhousing onto either a 3 or 5 rib tranny.

To use the complete 091 tranny you need to shorten the shift rod by about 10-12mm, as the nose cone is longer. You also need to clearance the cross member to the front of the tranny just a bit so the shift coupling doesn't hit.

You could also just swap the three rib nose cone on to the 091 gear box.

[gleason]

Thanks guys. I guess I'd sooner have the whole 2.0 type 4 set up in the 74. If it's changing the nose cone will make the swap and the shifter issue go away, I'd be up for that. I have a brand new clutch/pressure plate on the engine now and would like to maintain it and not have to buy another.

[vwwestyman]

I have a 2.0 engine and 091 in my '73.

Before that, the 2.0 was bolted to the old 3-rib transmission.

The 091 is much nicer with that motor.

As was said, the clutch goes with whichever bellhousing and flywheel is present.

If you don't have the earlier flywheel, then you'll need to buy a new clutch setup. If I were you, I'd look to keep the whole drivetrain the same year vs. mixing and matching parts.

I "shortened" my shift rod by drilling a second hole up front where it attaches to the front shift rod. Now the bolt from the coupler goes in the new hole.

I found my shift rod was hollow besides the metal plug at the end, so I shoved some epoxy in there to give the bolt something else to grab to. Seems to have worked OK.

I did not clearance the frame near the rear coupler. I get a squeak in 4th gear that I finally figured out is the coupler just kissing the frame. If I put it into gear and just push the shifter ever so slightly forward, it'll gt the coupler away from the frame and it won't squeak any more.

I figure I could deal with that by possibly adjusting the shifter a tad, or maybe I overshot the drilling by a little and drilled the hole 11 or 12 mm back vs the 10 I was trying for. Or, of course, I could get down there and touch the frame with a grinder where the shifter contacts it. It hasn't bothered me enough to do any of these things just yet.

Here you can see the open space behind the metal plug.

Here you can kind of see the epoxy I used.

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1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
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[vwwestyman]

BTW, if you're been driving around with a 1600 in there, you'll really enjoy the new engine and transmission combo!
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[MorkC68]

We fitted an AP series type 4 & 091 6 rib box (running a 228mm clutch & flywheel) into our 73 successfully.

We had no issues with the gear shift rod or starter, we sourced tinware and the engine hanger bar and mounts.

I do wonder if the starter motor was a later one to fit the motor in the bus when we first bought it
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[gleason]

Thanks guys. All good info. I had a 77 Westy with this same combo in and it's night and day difference. So you didn't change the front nose cone VWWestyman, just shortened the shaft basically? Interesting.

[vwwestyman]

[MorkC68]

[NoBudgetVWGarage]

Im running a 2L and an 091 Trans in my 72. The only thing I did was swap the 3 rib bellhousing on to the 091.
Also using my original 210mm clutch,pressure plate and starter.
No problems with shifting using a Scat shifter.
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[Wildthings]

You can redrill the rod as shown or redrill the shaft coming out of the tranny. You must be very careful though to making sure the new hole is correctly in line with the old one or you will never get the tranny to shift well.

[gleason]

MorkC68, since mine didn't have the FI on the engine I used for core, I'm going to run a set of Kady Shack 44's on it. I had a set of Dels I thought about running, but found a complete kit with pump, regulater, hoses, carbs, cleaners, intakes and all that were already tuned by Kady. The set up cost the purchase, (9 months and $890) which I got for $450 shipped.

[vwwestyman]

[Wildthings]

[gleason]

Does my trans number 091 301 103 with a large 3 under that tell me what my tranny ratio is? It should be out of a 77 Westy if it hasn't been changed. Know where parts are available beside the nose cone? I want to make sure it's fresh and 2nd gear syncho was clicking in cold weather up shifting.

[vwwestyman]

Far as I know, 091s are all the same ratios.

Before I installed mine in the '73, I replaced as many seals as I could, had the nose cone machined to accept the metal plate, and in stalled the metal plate that holds the (mainshaft?) bearing in place. (The bearing eats into the metal of the nose cone and starts migrating. Someone devised a metal plate that sandwiches in there to prevent this from happening and hold it steady.)

You can't really take the gear carrier housing off to replace it's seal because you need special tools to put it all together, but you should be able to replace the bellhousing seal, the output shaft seals, input shaft seal, and the bearing and seal that the hockey stick goes through.

I also painted mine, just for fun.
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[gleason]

I'm just concerned on condition since mine was in a fire which was hot enough to melt the nose cone somewhat...

[vwwestyman]

You can buy nose cones that have already been modified for the metal plate, so maybe that is what you should do.

Though I'd probably wonder about the rest of the transmission if the nose cone was melted!

May think about having it rebuilt, so that way the internals will all be checked... Or just run it and see what happens! Then have it rebuilt if needed.
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing