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16CVs 
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 4024
Location: Redwood City, California
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 Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Beware of Thermex brand front heater core *** 11/21 maybe fixed? |
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I've never seen a front heater core go bad.
Stacy
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
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VicVan
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015
Posts: 1840
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Beware of Thermex brand front heater core *** 11/21 maybe fixed? |
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Dave,
do you have an update on that new core?
I have to replace mine, and wonder which brand to order.
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Beware of Thermex brand front heater core *** 11/21 maybe fixed? |
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Just to update thus thread, my heater core from BusDepot was a Thermex and was no good.
It provided almost zero heat on a 60°F day!
THE FLASHLIGHT TEST IS MEANINGLESS!!!!!!!
My bad core passed zero light!
BusDepot was surprised and made good on it.
I opened the heater core (they did not want it back) to find serious design flaws and why hot coolant bypassed the core.
This link takes you to a thread about fixing your original core and why it is a superior product.
I wrote up my thermex findings here.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762484&start=40
My advice?
Fix your original core over buying any new core.
Here is my experience with the thermex core and testing my original core for leaks ........
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=763401
Here is my post on the thermex core I cut open......
| djkeev wrote: |
I’ve been busy but here are my thoughts on why this core delivers no heat.
First,
The core has flat tubes across its width.
The tubes are evenly divided into three sections with two dividing bars.
Second,
The cap with the nipples does have a center divider to separate the IN pipe and the EXIT pipe.
Third,
This cap divider is not welded to either the end cap or the core. There are a few tangs that stick through the end cap and these tangs are soldered on the outside of the end cap…….. But the divider isn’t continuously attached to the cap, there are gaps.
Fourth,
The divider is not attached to the core.
The edge of the divider that touches the core has a scalloped edge that mimics the profile of the core.
It looks like they set the divider on the core, set the end cap on the divider, then they “rap” the end cap with a hammer to “set” the divider in place they next solder the end cap on.
Fifth,
Because the divider is in the center of the end cap and the core is divided into just three sections, the divider spans the center section at its mid point.
PROBLEM: even if the scalloped divider seals perfectly to the core (it does not seal perfectly BTW) the divider spans one core opening, the coolant simply flows under the divider!!! (Not to mention past the inexact divider fit)
Conclusion:
Once the core fills up, the vast amount of coolant entering the core simply flows under the divider and returns to the engine coolant return pipe.
The coolant has no incentive to flow through the core, it takes the path of least resistance.
Sadly they opted for fast assembly using a off the shelf core. If the core pipes were divided into two or four segments, this cheap assembly process would probably work reasonably well.
DAVE |
Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Last edited by djkeev on Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4087
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Beware of Thermex brand front heater core |
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Yep. These two pictures tell the whole story.
Thermex: (pic by djkeev)
OEM: (pic by DanHoug)
Thanks for taking the time to cut open the Thermex Dave!
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2672
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Beware of Thermex brand front heater core *** 11/21 maybe fixed? |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Just to update thus thread, my heater core from BusDepot was a Thermex and was no good.
It provided almost zero heat on a 60°F day!
THE FLASHLIGHT TEST IS MEANINGLESS!!!!!!!
My bad core passed zero light!
BusDepot was surprised and made good on it.
I opened the heater core (they did not want it back) to find serious design flaws and why hot coolant bypassed the core.
Dave |
Did they reimburse you for the time it took to do the job over and the down-time of the van? |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32584
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Beware of Thermex brand front heater core *** 11/21 maybe fixed? |
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| xoo00oox wrote: |
| djkeev wrote: |
Just to update thus thread, my heater core from BusDepot was a Thermex and was no good.
It provided almost zero heat on a 60°F day!
THE FLASHLIGHT TEST IS MEANINGLESS!!!!!!!
My bad core passed zero light!
BusDepot was surprised and made good on it.
I opened the heater core (they did not want it back) to find serious design flaws and why hot coolant bypassed the core.
Dave |
Did they reimburse you for the time it took to do the job over and the down-time of the van? |
To their credit they did offer me some reimbursement for my time.
But when you factor in the time required to do the job again, it was but a small portion.
If I were a shop?
I might be not so compliant and have demanded more.
But as a local hobby customer who can easily drive to their facility and pick up my parts, it really isn't that big of an issue to me.
Pulling it again (I had planned to anyway) gave me opportunity to clean up some PO wiring and fix my own radio install mess I created working through a tiny hole in the dash! 
In my experience, BusDepot hasn't backed away from owning a legit screwup.
Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10371
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Beware of Thermex brand front heater core |
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re: Pic 1. Wow. 
I'm seeing this wrong but how does coolant even flow in, let alone out? edited
My second thought was the passage ID. I see. Never mind..... 
Thanks a lot Dave. Very helpful.
Neil.
| MsTaboo wrote: |
| Yep. These two pictures tell the whole story. |
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djkeev
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
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Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Beware of Thermex brand front heater core |
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Ah, ok. I now see the divider on OE and Thermex cores. Didn't see those before. Thanks Dave.
I can remove this but here's one shot by DanHoug I changed "shadow" etc on:
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djkeev
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khughes
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Joined: July 13, 2013
Posts: 747
Location: Phoenix AZ
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: Beware of Thermex brand front heater core |
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Wow! That Thermex is LAME. Thanks for the pics, if they are all like that...whew, rebuilding the OEM is really the only viable option.
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skills@eurocarsplus
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Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: Beware of Thermex brand front heater core |
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does anyone have the p/n for a behr/hella unit?
OE # is 251265303C
i know it may be a longshot, but i have friends high enough up the chain we may be able to get a run of them made.
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10371
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Beware of Thermex brand front heater core |
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Bought this in 2008. Looks OE but not sure what RHO is and that PN is different
251 265 313C
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
does anyone have the p/n for a behr/hella unit?
OE # is 251265303C
i know it may be a longshot, but i have friends high enough up the chain we may be able to get a run of them made. |
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10371
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Beware of Thermex brand front heater core |
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| djkeev wrote: |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Bought this in 2008. Looks OE but not sure what RHO is and that PN is different
251 265 313C |
Made in 2003, looks brand new.
Other photos? |
In 2008, I think it was the last new VW core in existence, locally anyways. Has less than 150K miles likely closer to 100K. Been installed since 2008.
All I can find right now. These were also taken recently
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MsTaboo
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Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4087
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Beware of Thermex brand front heater core |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Just another example on why repairing and reusing the original parts is often a wise move.
You CANNOT purchase this level of quality new today. Dave |
I've never seen these in real life but aren't they supposed to be as good as OEM?
https://thebrassworks.net/collections/heater-cores...-1983-1991
Expensive and unfortunately they have a very long lead time, but are American made and all metal.
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Currently:
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The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
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djkeev
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