CWAT's Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup

[cwat1982]

Do you notice many issues with the temp swings up here Brad? Figured the weather swings could have something to do with the tuning issues. Some days up here its 32'C, other days its 5'C

Really want to get to a point where I hop in, turn the key and she fires right up and we're good to go.

The CB Performance kit came with everything needed?
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1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc

[cwat1982]

Well... honestly I'm looking for a distraction. COVID-19 has me squirly, the oil price crash has had a big effect here (oil town) and now we've been hit with our second disaster in 4 years. First the major forest fire 4 years ago that went through our city, and a few days ago the river broke and an ice jam has plugged it up resulting in our downtown being hit with a major flood. SERENITY NOW!!!!

I decided to take the EFI plunge, went with a kit from the Samba classifieds that's already set up . It has been pulled off another members bug he's looking to upgrade. Definitely overkill for my engine, but it's already wired/set-up, components were much higher quality then some other comparable EFI kits and I have a friend locally that is an expert with tuning the Haltech sport 1000 ECU (which was a major factor) . What's included:

- Aeromotive pre pump fuel filter
- Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump
- Aeromotive post pump fuel filter
- 48mm CB Performance throttle bodies (modified to 52mm)
- Precision Turbo 50lb per hour injectors
- Magnafuel Quickstar MP-9925 fuel regulator
- AN fittings with stainless hoses.
- Haltech sport 1000 ECU
- Laptop with haltech program all set up.
- Haltech LS1 coils
- Complete wiring harness
- Cam sync, crank trigger, Innovate LC-1 O2 senor/controller

I drained the tank and removed all of the old fuel system yesterday, waiting on an order of braided nylon hose with more AN fittings to start installing the new gear. One thing right off the bat I see is I will need new intake manifolds. I had EMPI HPMX 44 carbs, and on the manifold inlet the narrower bolts were towards the engine. For these throttle bodies I will need manifold inlets with the wider bolts towards the engine (I tried turning the throttle bodies to match but the injectors hit the frame).

Measured my head inlets, they were 34.39mm and new throttle body outlets confired to be 52mm.

I don't think this matters but old manifold inlets were 44.48mm, outlets were 31.06mm, and height was ~13.34cm.

PO said the throttle bodies will bolt to any IDF, or Dellorto style manifold.
Question for the group... do I have to know anything special fit wise for this purchase?I looked on the classifieds and seen these options with the bolt pattern I'm looking for,:

- Weber IDA 48 manifolds - $140
- 48 IDA manifolds - $100
- Big Beef IDA manifolds - $100
- 48 Weber manifolds drilled and tapped for NOS - $80

Cheers,
Chad
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1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc

[stevemariott]

[cwat1982]

Thanks Steve,

Appreciate the help. So definitely not IDA manifolds, got it. I have seen the odd classified add with manifolds that have inlet flanges with holes that would allow the throttle bodies/carbs to be bolted on either way... guess I need to track down one of those. Like these:

- 1 pair Chrome dual port zenith manifold - $35
- Vintage dual port VW to porsche manifolds - $200

Or would it be possible to weld a bracket onto my existing manifolds that would facilitate this?

Cheers,
Chad
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1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc

[stevemariott]

Something designed like that would work, although I haven't seen a manifold for an IDF / DRLA body like that. That's the right idea though - a flat flange on the top for your reversed orientation / bolt pattern.

[cwat1982]

Hmmm.... now that I think about it I wouldn't even have to weld on brackets. Could just bolt a plate to the manifolds via the existing holes, and drill new holes for mounting the throttle bodies.
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1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc

[stevemariott]

There ya go! Something like this, but for your setup:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2334122

[cwat1982]

BINGO, thanks for the help Steve.

Weber IDF / Dellorto DRLA reverse mounting flange
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1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc

[stevemariott]

Yeah!! I've never seen that before, very cool! Happy to help bounce ideas back and forth. BTW, impressive EFI setup!

[cwat1982]

Thanks, and really want to get it rolling ASAP... would be great to get out of the house with the kids and log some miles.
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1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc

[GS guy]

The CB space saver manifolds might work for you? The turn the carbs around in the orientation you're looking for. Not sure how the fan shroud clearance will look?
Jeff
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70's vintage Deserter GS buggy - undergoing transformation to Super GS!

[cwat1982]

Well... went with the idea from Jeff and bought the CB space saver manifolds. Have wanted their linkage setup for awhile and this was a good excuse to combine shipping and make it worth while.

Just finished porting them to match the heads/throttle bodies and now a new issue I'm hoping the forum can help with... When I go to install the manifolds they are super tight against the engine tins, I gave the tins a few "light" hammer taps and am now able to get them to seat. And yes I see how short the studs are... have new longer ones ready to go.

Now there is no way to mount the throttle bodies without the fuel rails hitting the fan shroud.

Will a new shroud give me enough space to mount the throttle bodies this way? I see this style (www.cip1.ca) doesn't seem to be as wide as mine at the bottom, almost like mine is shaped like a muffin top.

If a new shroud won't work I think I will have to pickup or fabricate these plates (Reverse Moutning Flange) to reverse mount them then just swap all the wires around.

I really miss driving this thing lol.
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1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc

[stevemariott]

Fun with aftermarket parts! It appears that the 36hp shroud will get you much closer to the necessary clearance (if not completely), but it’s hard to tell. If it doesn’t, a small amount of additional metal work wouldn’t be that difficult. I had to modify a Scat 36hp shroud to fit the body of my buggy a few years ago.
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1963 Manx copy
1968 Bus

[cwat1982]

Finally some progress to share...

Honestly been pretty intimidated with this upgrade and haven't really touched it since last year. Finally saying screw it... have to get this done and get some cruising done with my girls before I'm not cool enough for them to hang out with anymore.

Ported the new intakes and installed some longer studs. After this figured the reverse mounting flange discussed above was something I could try making myself. Made up a stencil by tracing the intake manifold inlet then the throttle body outlet, couple tweaks then cut it out/transferred to some aluminum plate. Cut them out with an old scroll saw, then sanded smooth. Throttle bodies are now mounted and look great, only hurdle was I had to shave off one side of the nuts to make enough room for the throttle bodies to fully seat against the new flanges.

Was worried about the electrical components of the EFI kit being exposed to the elements with how open the buggy is so I picked up a waterproof case and was able to mount all components inside. Only concern I have is if things will overheat... will see what happens once I get it all running once again.

Here's where I currently sit...

Still need to finish running new fuel supply/return lines (just waiting on some scrap heater hose to use as a cover in abrasive spots - hopefully gets dropped off in next couple days), crank trigger wheel and sensor mount supposed to be delivered tomorrow. No real concerns there but need to figure out how to properly install the cam sync sensor, I'm sure you can't just drop it in blindly and call it a day. Other question mark is the linkage, I upgraded to the CB performance hex bar kit, but it won't mount due to the fuel rails. Either I install risers above the throttle bodies for clearance (~1-2") or I stay with my current setup. Slowly getting there....
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1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc

[cwat1982]

Alright... fuel system is all plumbed and wired.

Had to stick with the existing Scat linkage, but had to buy some 3/8 rod to bend up in order to make it all work. Couldn't reach cylinder 1/2 with the taller space saver intakes plus my mounting flange... rod was hitting the underside of the alternator and couldn't reach the throttle body. Hoping this won't cause any issues because I finally have all parts installed and am about ready to go for a start.

Only potential issue I see is the travel of the throttle bodies is slightly different... cylinders 1/2 opens 23.5mm, cylinders 3/4 travel 25.27mm. Should I be overly concerned with that???

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1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc

[cwat1982]

Well... been a long time since the last update because once installed I could not get it running. Banging my head against the wall, trying new things and would not go.

Had a few friends pop by to help out over the last couple years and we were able to get it running but had no power and could barley move the vehicle in 1st. Dropped it off at a local shop with a dyno hoping they would be able to tune and get me going but no luck.

Was at the point of giving up and got extremely fortunate! A friend who has been helping out offered space at his garage and wanted to give it a good go over. He has a boatload of experience with engine builds and EFI setups in his cars (1200-1800 HP Mustangs and a few other toys). An hour after dropping off the buggy I get a message that the car is sounding better, the next evening I get a video of Kolby driving around the neighborhood .

Cold start took a little effort last night, but after a 5 minute warmup it was able to hold idle so more more tuning required there. First ride with the girls in a couple years and we all had a blast. Car drives great, good throttle response, pulls through 120kmph no problem.

Still some tuning to dial it in, but the odd backfire/carb popping that was annoying me is 100% gone. Took way too long (3 years), but learned alot along the way and happy that we finally made it here. Back in love again!
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1970 Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup, 2095cc