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Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle
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Buggeee
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:24 am    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Now to dive into the great Mysterious World of torsion bars and spring plates! Inner splines and outer splines, angle finders, geometry and math. Spooky stuff! Armed with the talental equivalent of a birthday candle to light my way, I enter the miles of underground Caverns...

First safety, because Safety First. When I was 15 years old working on a 66 split window bus that I had bought for $50, I made the uninformed choice to hold the rear end up with a cinder block standing on its edge. When that shattered and the bus collapsed to the floor there was only divine intervention that had me rolling out from under it and reaching for a wrench at the time... which allows me to be here today decades later to show you how I handle that kind of stuff these days as an old man:

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If one 3 ton floor jack can lift this bug onto one-wheel (ask me how I know) then four of them can certainly hold the rear end in the air! You might find it interesting, or maybe not, but I'll tell you anyway... The rear edge of the front doors is the balancing point for a bug with nobody in it. The whole thing can teeter and totter on that jack that you see there at that point where I have it setting in the bolt channel of the pan. The back ones I have got on the horns of the frame that lead to the transaxle mount... But that is not all, no that is not all. Once I pulled the rear wheels off I threw them under the engine just for that added sense of security.

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Then it was time to start taking things apart. I used a 12 point star socket to take all the bolts out of the CV joint. (It's not a t40 Torx Bolt, so just check your Bentley for the right tool the first time. I'm lucky I didn't goof up my bolts trying it that way)

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Then I pulled out the three bolts that hold the swing arm thing to the spring plate. The gold square you see in this picture is a bracket that mounts up the fat sway bar that's on this bug.

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I should have scratched a mark in the spring plate to show where the swing arm is attached to it because those are oblong holes underneath that are used to align the rear wheels. I forgot to do that, but thankfully there was a shadow of decay that showed where it belongs and I was able to put it back in the same spot. You'll have to forgive the darkness and lack of focus for some of these pictures as the project was interrupted by minion related activities late in the afternoon and I picked it up again just as the sun was going down. Turned out to be a late but very satisfying night.

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Then I unbolted the shock absorber and pushed the swing arm down and mostly out of the way. I wasn't thinking about it at the time but when I started putting everything back together I realized that I had the swing arms hanging by nothing but the rubber brake lines during the project. The next time I do this I will set something underneath the drum to support it so it's not hanging by that rubber hose.

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With that done it was time to tear into the torsion bar area, which is as easy as removing four bolts holding on the spring plate cap.

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Now normally the spring plate would be under some tremendous tension, and would be only held in position by a little metal tab on the frame of the bug that the spring plate his laying next to you. In my case, the bug had been lowered so far that the spring plates were not under any tension at all and so I didn't have to worry about that and was able to simply unbolt them and wiggle them away from the torsion bars. If I was starting with a bug that had some suspension to it, I would have had to first support that spring plate with a special tool that is shown in the Bentley manual, or with at least a floor jack being careful not to let it pop off in an uncontrolled way. Once the spring plate would be pushed up and pried off the tab a little bit it could be worked out, because it's flexible, and then let down over the tabs carefully. I don't know if that makes a lot of sense but you'll get what I'm talking about if you look at yours. Anyway, I didn't have to worry about that on the taking apart stage of this project so I just took it apart. And wiggled it off. Here is what's inside!

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I have been pleasantly surprised throughout the build of this hand me down bug project to find the amount of money that some prior owner has spent on a lot of the pieces. Here you can see that all of the rubber inside the rear suspension has been freshly replaced with new red urethane.

You may also be able to tell from that picture, however, that the splines on the end of the torsion bar are dry. They should have been covered in grease. That orange pole sticking out of the car is the torsion bar. On the inside end of it there are splines as well. Those are called the inner splines. The ones that you see in this picture on the outer end of the torsion bar are aptly called the outer splines.

The torsion bar can be rotated clockwise or counterclockwise on the inner splines by wiggling it out, twisting it and then pushing/wiggling it back in. The spring plate thing that you see in my picture has a tube on it and in the end of the tube there are splines that match the outer splines of the torsion bar. In that way, the spring plate holder can be rotated clockwise or counterclockwise on the end of the torsion bar splines. And that is where you'll see people saying things like I took it up one inner spline or down two outer splines and things like that.

The inner splines cause a smaller amount of rotation in the overall package. And the outer splines cause a larger amount of rotation in the overall package when you change their position. I want to say that I've read the inner splines each equate to about an inch and the outer splines each equate to about two inches.

Also I found that there is some kind of relationship between the rotation of inner splines and the rotation of outer spines that is not linear. The Bentley manual describes this as fractions of degrees or something. It talks about rotating an outer spline one direction and an inner spline the other direction in order to accomplish a half a degree of an angle or whatever in movement. Here's what it all meant for me...

In my car someone had installed the torsion bars in an unequal way so that the right side of the car was about an inch lower than the left side of the car. In order to get an equal baseline on both sides, I left the driver's side spring plate as it was and then rotated the torsion bar around on the passenger side spring plate until the spring plates were both equal. In order to do this I ended up rotating the passenger side spring plate by like 3 inner splines in one direction and two outer splines in another direction, or some other combination like that until finally the angle on both of the driver's and passenger's spring plates was the EXACTLY the same.

Then I used a permanent marker to put a mark on the top of each torsion bar so I knew how to match them up if they came out again some other time.

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Once that was done and they were both starting from the same place, I lowered both spring plates by one outer spline - in order to raise the car about two inches.

I checked to see that both spring plates were at the same angle by using this magnetic angle finder that I got for $14 on Amazon.

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Oh man that's a lotta words. I need a coffee. Be right back...
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Clever use of that bat Idea You should post that to the Alternate tool use post I started Cool
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

joey1320 wrote:
Nice work on the fender. Did you figure out the clunking noise from the front end?


Thx Joey. Not yet. I've got ball joints on the way so I'll get those in and see where I'm at.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:47 am    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Nice work on the fender. Did you figure out the clunking noise from the front end?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Happy Father's Day Samba peeps! Smile

This weekend I indulged myself in some rideability projects on the bug for dear old dad (meaning me!). The bouncy house has been breaking my poor back and, honestly, has made driving the bug one of the most strenuous projects I've had with it so far. So, to address that and also to top that with a more strenuous project I dove in on a weekend that I'm allowed to have to myself (if I say that enough it might be true LOL).

To get warmed up I thought I'd roll the front fenders so that they make the rubbing noise less frequently as I parade this rat around town.

Here is the requisite starting point picture. You can see how this fender is a little bit out of round to the wheel living under it, and how towards the front it really gets in the way of the tire even when just turning it out of the driveway.

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This needs a specialty tool so I went deep into the garage and pulled out an old aluminum Little League bat and started working the front fenders with the small handle first, slowly rolling it up into the gap between the lip of the fender and the tire that rubs on it.

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Then having gotten the lip started in curving upwards, I started rolling through it with a larger end of the bat.

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Back and forth I went slowly working it and keeping the bat rolling so that it didn't crease the fender as it worked the lip up. Here's a close-up pic where you can see how the lip has been rolled out of the way a bit as a result.

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And Voilla! The tire and fender, while not free of all conflict, are at least on speaking terms and make a cute couple too!

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Best of all my bug no longer screams to the neighborhood "hey everybody look at the jalopy pulling out of the driveway".

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Note to Dads everywhere: don't use the bat you just got for your minion's last birthday. Rolling a fender is a bit hard on the finish of an aluminum bat. I used one that was outgrown a few summers ago so nobody would complain. Plus, it's a little smaller diameter so seems to be a better fit for the project.

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More to come... Cool
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

So here's the kinda thing that can keep you sane on a summer evening after work. The paint stripper (pages ago) did a great job on the many layers of factory, spray-can and roller that had been added over the years, but didn't touch the bondo. I just primed over the bondo at that time and now, tonight's the night. Wonder whats under here?

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After consulting with the prior owner/bodyman that I picked this up from, it was decided that an angle grinder with wire brush would do the most to the bondo - while doing the least to the metal underneath, so the archaeological tool of choice is this:

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... and boy did it work great! The bondo came right off and the metal was left as smooth as a baby's bottom.

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So now I know what I'm dealing with. Just wavy metal and hammer marks. I might try some hammer and dolly at some point just because... well why not. Just because. At least I know what I'm dealing with now.

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With the sun setting, I hit it with some spray-can self etching primer, and then drove it back into the garage ready for duty at the next cruise.

I'll be hitting the here and there with the wire brush as I take the nits and nats down to bare metal and etch prime it. Just getting it to the baseline for now. And enjoying the milk-getting and errand-running in the meantime. This rat always gets a smile, wave or a shout out.

Too much fun. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

I would contact Topline and ask about the play on the strut/carrier, I would imagine there shouldn't be any.

I got my plates today Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

vamram wrote:
Have you checked the ball joint on that side? they will clunk when they go bad and cause a shimmy.

Victor


Hey thank you Victor. I ordered a couple of German ball joints and we'll see if that does the trick. I figure with 88,000 miles on the shell they're about ready for replacement anyway.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Have you checked the ball joint on that side? they will clunk when they go bad and cause a shimmy.

Victor
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

joey1320 wrote:
Freaking awesome!!!

I finally got my title notarized yesterday and the plan is to go get plates for it Saturday morning. Hopefully I'll take mine out for a quick ride Saturday afternoon after working on the deck.

Next I gotta work on my brother's '62 and my father in laws' '75. We gotta meet up man.
Wink


Looking forward to it Joey!

I have decided to chase down a clunking sound I've got in my front end on the drivers side. I figured I'd start by adjusting the wheel bearings, which were sloppy and out of spec. I busted open the orange Bentley manual and was pleased to find that I have another use for the micro gauge that I got for the end play adjustments when I built the motor this winter. Here it is in action helping me get the bearings within spec.

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Now as satisfying an accomplishing as that adjustment is, I really don't think it was causing the sound I've got. So on to the next step.

Here's a picture of one of the Topline struts on the driver side and it's got some slop right in the middle of it where that silver thing is threaded into the black thing. The whole thing kind of bends right there when I push and pull on it and that doesn't seem right to me.

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Especially since it does not do it on the passenger side. At first I thought maybe that silver thing wasn't screwed in enough into the black thing, but sticking my camera up underneath the passenger side let's me see that its also not dialed in all that deep either. Even so it doesn't move on the passenger side but the driver side does. So I guess I'm going to have to go research what Topline struts are all about. In the event I stumble on someone looking at this post here, they are Topline Maxx struts for a 71-72 Super Beetle. They can't have been driven for too many miles given the newness of the whole Topline lowering package that's on this thing, so my guess it has something to do with how they were assembled when some prior owner put them on.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Freaking awesome!!!

I finally got my title notarized yesterday and the plan is to go get plates for it Saturday morning. Hopefully I'll take mine out for a quick ride Saturday afternoon after working on the deck.

Next I gotta work on my brother's '62 and my father in laws' '75. We gotta meet up man.
Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Ahhh... sweet summertime. A little trip to the illicit diy skate park.

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On the way home my minion spotted a long lost cousin, twice removed. These are rare sightings in Ohio so a quick pic of the family reunion was in order.

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Keep on Buggin... Orange Bug
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
Quote:
I decided I'm going to put it all together and try to make it run. Then I can refinish one part here and another part there as weekends permit. Can't wait for the spring!

Congratulations on achieving your goal! And with a month to spare until Spring ends. So many people (me included) let the completion of a project car slide into months or years. Having a running car in driveable condition is a huge accomplishment. And you did all this in just over 3 months per the date in your first post.

-Did you lose your outer mirror already?! Embarassed
-How many spray cans of the self-etch primer did you need after your paint stripping?
-How effective are your refinished OG heater boxes?
-Once you slightly raise the ride height, especially in the rear, I hope you'll gain confidence to gradually increase your speeds in curves due to your F & R sway bars. I have a set on my '77 Beetle, and it corners really well.
-Have you decided on a final body paint color?


Thank you Rome!

* -Did you lose your outer mirror already?! *

Thankfully, no. Lol. Through the majic of the internet and the liberty of poetic license in assembling this post the mirror got thrown on earlier in the day rather than when we were pulling in after ice cream, which was the literal reality. The minions were pestering me throughout the day with "Are you allowed to drive around with the motor showing?" "Will the police give you a ticket for not having windshield wipers?" So I was hitting these things throughout the day. The last thing I got called out on was "Aren't you supposed to have mirrors?" So I threw one one after the shake shop.

-How many spray cans of the self-etch primer did you need after your paint stripping?

I want to say five, but I'd get seven to be sure.

-How effective are your refinished OG heater boxes?

I don't know yet... This California bug had the Bakelite heater tubes removed that lead into the body. I have the replacements but haven't installed them yet and will need to in order to hook up the OG heater boxes to the channels that run through the car. Everything I have read says installing the Bakelite is going to be a real PITA. Time will come but for now it's going to be summer. Smile

* -Once you slightly raise the ride height, especially in the rear, I hope you'll gain confidence to gradually increase your speeds in curves due to your F & R sway bars. I have a set on my '77 Beetle, and it corners really well. *

That is motivating to hear. I definitely have to get up off the rubber stops in the rear. Ohio roads are not what they must be enjoying in sunny Cali.

*'-Have you decided on a final body paint color? *

I really think it's going to be Chevy Hugger Orange - in a satin finish, with a black front hood and a white rally stripe running off-center over the top front to back.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Quote:
I decided I'm going to put it all together and try to make it run. Then I can refinish one part here and another part there as weekends permit. Can't wait for the spring!

Congratulations on achieving your goal! And with a month to spare until Spring ends. So many people (me included) let the completion of a project car slide into months or years. Having a running car in driveable condition is a huge accomplishment. And you did all this in just over 3 months per the date in your first post.

-Did you lose your outer mirror already?! Embarassed
-How many spray cans of the self-etch primer did you need after your paint stripping?
-How effective are your refinished OG heater boxes?
-Once you slightly raise the ride height, especially in the rear, I hope you'll gain confidence to gradually increase your speeds in curves due to your F & R sway bars. I have a set on my '77 Beetle, and it corners really well.
-Have you decided on a final body paint color?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Thanks for the pics FaanP. I thought mine was a bit ratty... until I see Rattatouille and friend! Looking forward to a black and red Wolfsburg tribute in the row. Smile

Here's a day in a bug's life... We started early at a VW cruise in at a local auto body supply shop. She settled in for some rays between some sweet split window Kombi's

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Then it was off for a 70 mile highway road trip to the minion's soccer games (we traveled separately as I had no rear seat and really don't know her well enough yet). She traveled well and has a sweet spot at 57 mph and again at 63 and again at 67. I will get the tires balanced and then it should be smooth sailing all the way through. The motor is pulling strong, handling the highways with ease...

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In the afternoon the minions installed the seatbelts and back seat. They were getting jealous of dad's ride.

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Then off for some erands to test out the rear seat (its a bouncy house for sure with this slammed beetle)... On the way one yells out "Hey was that a piece of your bug???" No, I say confidently, I don't have the hubcaps on yet...

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Turns out they were right!!! Coming out of the hardware store one points out my missing headlight trim ring. Embarassed Good news the same minion's good eyes spotted it sitting in the road on the way home. This thing is so low... "How low is it?" It is so low I just slowed, opened the door and picked it up of the road as we drove by... Wink

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As long as the tools were out, time for a rear decklid...

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A handy mirror...

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And a driver's windshield wiper...

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Then back to the motoring around town for a bite to eat...

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Some sporting supplies...

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And ending the day with a cruise to the shake shop, hubcaps and all. Cool

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A bugs life... What a great way to spend a Saturday. Keep on buggin! Orange Bug
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1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
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HUGO bOSS
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Great project! Cgs!
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

some pics from from my car show:

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FaanP
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

Nice, I'm going to car show tomorrow. Bug-less but I'm going to have a look. Lots of bugs going to show there. I'll use the trip as inspiration to finish mine.

There is another show end of July, maybe I'll enter that one.
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MSBenko
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

I keep wanting to go to the car shows as well. Your bug is much nicer than mine. Someday... Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Buggeee's 1972 Super Beetle Reply with quote

The ultimate payoff for the whole Winter's worth of work hit today. One of my minions and I took her to her first show. Cool Thursday night Cruise at a local church that pulls in about 300 cars. When I pulled this rat in, the organizer gave me a big smile and a front-row seat for her on the lawn out on the main road. I have been driving past this show for years and years and years and always thought the day would come when I could have something to join in with. Today was that day. Very Happy There was another guy with a Super Beetle (much prettier than mine) and he told me about some other shows in my state that will be going on later this summer. This gives me motivation to make her roadworthy for sure! The third dub at the show was a clean vanagon. Everything else was American muscle. As it turns out, every musclehead has a VW somewhere in their past and an interesting story to go with it. Wink Here she is with her new friends...

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1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
SnowDaySyncro wrote:
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