Vanistan exhaust: retorque, leaks, etc.

[Rocky Mountain Westy]

Hey Chachi,

I sent you a PM. I am happy to try and help. Keep me posted. Let's schedule some time to chat on the phone.


Thanks, Mike
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Rocky Mountain Westy Inc.
www.rockymountainwesty.com
970-310-3441
[email protected]

The Splitzgauer build (when I have time to work on it and update the thread)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497133

[chachi]

thanks for your pm, mike, responded. msewalsen, i was in touch with chris when i started seeing this problem, around 5k, including pictures of the exhaust at that time. chris assured me that rocky jennings enterprises, original installer of engine and exhaust, had installed correctly and that the exhaust would need a retorque of 80ftlbs but that carbon buildup and the leaks i was seeing were not out of the ordinary.

I'm happy to learn these bandclamps are standard issue across platform.
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'74 transporter panel
'91 vanagon carat NAHT

[thatbaldwinlife]

I just got back from picking up my 2.2L from Rocky and we talked about the clamps leaking. He is working on flanges that would connect some of the parts without the clamps and work like the factory ones. They would need to be welded on. I am going to get some from him soon and weld on the flanges after I have mocked up the system to align it. This is going to be important and the clamps allow the movement to align to different set ups.
BTW, Rocky is a class act. He took the time to show my wife and I around and answered all of our questions and even some we didn't have. Can't wait to put this in this week!
nate

[chachi]

i'd definitely like to know more about these exhaust upgrades.
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'74 transporter panel
'91 vanagon carat NAHT

[thatbaldwinlife]

I have about 100 miles on my new motor and exhaust and it is already leaking a bit. What I don't understand is why they supply band clamps that are for butted joints instead of the lap joint clamps? I just ordered some Dynomax lap joint clamps and sealant to see it it cures the leaks. If it does not, I am going to contact Rocky and see if he can get me his flanges and have them welded on.
Exhaust sounds great but maybe a bit loud. Might go with the larger muffler option next.

[61Scout]

While I have no direct experience with this particular exhaust, I do have plenty of experience with those lap band clamps.

Personally, I've had to use high temp sensor safe silicone on the connections if they leak. Get the connection spotless clean, apply silicone, install clamp to specs and then allow them to cure fully. At least 24 hrs, but preferably 48-72hrs... keeping in mind ambient temperature and humidity. After doing this they have no longer leaked. YMMV.

I would not use an epoxy or hard type sealer as this would be a royal pain to clean or service if it didn't work whereas the silicone you can simply scrape away if it failed to work. In the few cases where this technique didn't work I've had to replace the lap band clamps with a new clamp. When torquing the clamps I like to do so in several stages and alternating sides until the final torque is reached.

-Kevin
_________________
1986 Westfalia Weekender Wolfsburg, RJE 2.3
1985 Tin Top, Subie 2.2 + 5MT
Floppy Mirrors no more: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653018&highlight=
Remove the front spindle nut with ease: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679567&highlight=
Remove the rear wheel bearing housing without messing with the big 46mm nut: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679507&highlight=

-Nec Spe, Nec Metu

[thatbaldwinlife]

Thanks Kevin
I too thought about using the high temp exhaust RTV but Vanistan says to stay away from it. I had to use it on my last exhaust to finally fix all of the leaks.

When the lap clamps show up, I will disassemble the exhaust and scotch brite all connections, install new clamps with sensor safe high temp RTV, torque and wait over night. Then drive and re-torque. Hopefully that fixes it.

nate

[61Scout]

@goldtooth- I think it will solve your problem. I wonder why Chris is against using silicone? My guess would be he's worried about people using way too much of it and having the silicone contaminate the cat and/or muffler. Or simply the wrong type or using it incorrectly and not allowing it to properly cure.

Just a little more detail as reading my last response may cause someone to slather on the silicone. When I do this, I don't undo the connection and apply silicone all over joint. I simply add the silicone in a small bead on the outside of the joint (the very end), slightly working some of it into/under the edge of the joint. Then I install the clamp. My goal is to essentially build a silicone o-ring at the end of the joint that is in turn held in place by the band clamp. I've never had a contamination issue doing it this way, but I also make sure to give it plenty of time to cure. Even with plenty of time to cure, I like to start the engine for a minute, allowing the exhaust to get just warm, then shut off the engine and let it sit again for a few hours. Alternatively one could hit it with a heat gun and then let it cool. It is a process that requires some patience. Good luck and hope it works out for you!

-Kevin
_________________
1986 Westfalia Weekender Wolfsburg, RJE 2.3
1985 Tin Top, Subie 2.2 + 5MT
Floppy Mirrors no more: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653018&highlight=
Remove the front spindle nut with ease: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679567&highlight=
Remove the rear wheel bearing housing without messing with the big 46mm nut: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679507&highlight=

-Nec Spe, Nec Metu

[thatbaldwinlife]

So I have put on my new clamps after finding exhaust leaks at all connections before the cat. Clamps can't get any tighter and I used the supplied exhaust paste. I took off the cat/muffler as one piece and then spent an hour trying to remove the J pipe. It was stuck from the exhaust paste and the butt joint clamps tend to ovalize the lapp joint due to overtightening. It took PB Blaster, torch and a dead blow hammer to remove. I then had to remove the 2:1 connector pipe in order to clean all connections and re-assemble. That paste is the worst and I will never use it again.
Here is a pic of the Walker 2" Lap joint clamp

You can see they supply a putty at the lap joint area for sealing. Here is the Walker clamp versus the supplied clamp

You can see the difference in how the clamp wraps around versus the aluminum block at the clamp area. Much better. Way thicker stainless steel as well.

I installed with some sensor safe high temp RTV which I used on my stock exhaust with great results.

The J pipe fits like stock but way better in terms of clamp force. The cat/J pipe I had to reverse the way the clamp is sits in terms of the bolt direction and had to take a file to the L bracket as the new clamp has a narrower bolt pattern. I left the butt joint clamp in between the muffler and cat as it is the correct application. I also left it on the exhaust pipe cause it doesn't matter if it leaks a bit.

Here it is installed

So far no leaks that I can detect. Took it to DEQ and they were able to get a good reading, though I failed on high HC but a little tuning and it will pass. The motor only has 250 miles on it.

This exhaust also needs a bung installed pre-cat so shops can do samples for tuning. It is an $8 part. I will be installing one.

Where I got the clamps
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CQHUYQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

nate

[chachi]

thanka for the write up, nate. my clamps are on order; is the rtv you used just the stuff they have bundled with these clamps on amazon?
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'74 transporter panel
'91 vanagon carat NAHT

[thatbaldwinlife]

I used Permatex high temp sensor safe RTV. It is orange. I applied basically like Kevin outlined in this thread. I also put in on the flange connections to assure a tight seal there. Not much but just a thin layer and let it dry past tacky so it doesn't all squeeze out during the clamping.

Now to locate a stainless welder to put in the bung. Then after I pick up the 18" HP2 muffler, it will finally be the exhaust I wanted!

[binger59]

I'm looking at purchasing this exhaust in the coming weeks going to put it on a tencent motor in May! I'm starting to get pretty stoked on that.

@ goldtooth how are the walker clamps holding up? Would you suggest just going ahead and installing that type right out of the gate?

@Keane What type of exhaust did you purchase after the RMW you sold? Are you happy with it?

@Rocky Mountain Westy (Mike) Do you have any recent updates to this problem?

Thanks for any responses, I'm on the cusp of spending the loot and it's always a good idea to weigh every option.
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Binger

1984 Westy
1986 7 Pass R.I.P. Donor van
2019 Jetta
2014 Passat
2019 Atlas
2006 Passat R.I.P.
1998 Jetta R.I.P.
1984 Vanagon R.I.P.

[90Doka_Guy]

[chachi]

you didn't ask me and i can't tell you how well they're holding over time cause i'm only at a week in with them installed but i would definitely go with the Walker clamps automatically over the installed clamps. they're thicker metal and have a better clamping system. i replaced all of them except the tailpipe clamp and it was pretty straightforward once i got the right clamps. the system uses one 2.25" flat band clamp and three 2-2.25" lap band clamps.

there is another joint, however, that doesn't have a clamp. where the head pipes all funnel into one, right after that there is a pipe-into-flared pipe connection that is definitely leaking. not sure this is a deal (back pressure test) killer; maybe it can be re-torqued? i'll get into DEQ this week...
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'74 transporter panel
'91 vanagon carat NAHT

[chachi]

failed BP again.
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'74 transporter panel
'91 vanagon carat NAHT

[thatbaldwinlife]

[Viva.Sabata]

[binger59]

Sorry to have left you out Chachi but thank you for the update. One of the few positives to living in NY is my inspection (at least for now) is just safety and no exhaust testing. I'm not overly concerned with sound just the leaks. I'm going with the RNW exhaust at this point and will buy the Walker clamps. I'll have the opportunity to install with the motor out. Did you folks install with the motor in? I'm installing with a floor jack in my drive way so I'll be deciding the day of I think.
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Binger

1984 Westy
1986 7 Pass R.I.P. Donor van
2019 Jetta
2014 Passat
2019 Atlas
2006 Passat R.I.P.
1998 Jetta R.I.P.
1984 Vanagon R.I.P.

[chachi]

yeah you can get to it all with the engine installed. that top clamp is a little tough to RTV but you can just get a finger in. i also had to round out my bracket holes to make the walker fit.
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'74 transporter panel
'91 vanagon carat NAHT

[blackglasspirate]

Do you guys have links or part numbers for all of the clamps required? I see the link for the lap joints above ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CQHUYQ/ref=c...PDKIKX0DER ) which I guess I'll need 3 of, but I'm not sure if I'm looking at the correct flat band clamp. If you guys could point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it.

I've had this system for years and have always suspected leaks even if I couldn't find them. When I first got the system they had regular donut style gasket where the headers connect and they kept disintegrating. Eventually RMW sent me the newer pipes that don't require a gasket and I can't tell if they are leaking there anymore.

The clamps though have always been a problem. I went by RMW this past October when I was passing through and asked them about it, but there didn't seem to be a solution other than replacing the clamps. I bought one from them while I was there and put it on where the J pipe connects to the cat, but it didn't seem to make a difference. Maybe replacing all of them and using some RTV will finally get me a sealed exhaust!


As for the noise of the system, I do miss the old sound of the stock system like someone mentioned earlier. It's a little loud for my taste but I've learned to deal with it. I thought about getting the GW stainless system but don't want to lose the performance gain. I need all the performance I can get!
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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
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