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Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build
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Boosten Ya(Josh)
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Beautiful. Coming along nicely cant wait to hear and see it run
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

few more details last night

1.5 deep sump (I wanna say SCAT, but I can't remember)
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and Jaycee's mag sump plate on (red of course)
I do not run an oil screen
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Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

wife and kiddo are gone this weekend, so lots getting done this weekend!

set the end play this morning, its fiddly but enjoyable. Shooting for .003-.004.

I'm always paranoid about this, so I'll be checking and re checking it throughout the build.

I always measure at the pulley end, the flywheel flexes too much
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its sits at .003 - .0035 and with pressure I see .004. good enough for me!
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i'm satisfied, so put in the o-ring and seal
torqued to 400ft/lbs with red loctite
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andor
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

theDrew wrote:


its sits at .003 - .0035 and with pressure I see .004. good enough for me!


Who so tight?
Are you gong to run a distributor?

Keep it on the loose side is my tip.
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

andor wrote:


Who so tight?
Are you gong to run a distributor?

Keep it on the loose side is my tip.


.003 is min spec, I've always set it to .004.

I'll be running a cam sensor
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andor
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

theDrew wrote:
andor wrote:


Who so tight?
Are you gong to run a distributor?

Keep it on the loose side is my tip.


.003 is min spec, I've always set it to .004.

I'll be running a cam sensor



The max spec is more interresting. On a high power turbo engine, I would prefer the extra clearance.
Since you are not using the distributor, unstable timing isn't a issue.

I run .0065
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

John recommended on a turbo build to be between .004-.005, so I re did it to be at .0045. (never hurts to have extra main seals laying around!)

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got the oil pump on -- shadek 26mm, o-ringed pump with a CB cover. I lapped the cover to make sure it has a good fit.

pump tang has ~0.250 engangment, so its all good.
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now onto the fun stuff -- starting on the exhaust. The CB header's wastegate flange wont fit with my TiAL wastegate, and I want it off of the collector, so started first by removing it. Once I get it in the car, I can start figuring out where it will go.
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Boosten Ya(Josh)
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

IMO that is a horrible placement for a wastegate. Kind of hard to control exhaust flow to the turbo if you only control 1 cyl exhaust flow.

Good job on moving it to the collector.
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07' Ford Ranger - New DD.

71' Super beetle - prostreet trans 4.10 gear, 1641cc with dual 40 IDFs, W110, and a 1-1/2qt deep oil pan.
Needs: cage, seats, harnesses, better suspension, new wheels, and rear disc brakes.

Almost there....
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jason
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Dont forget the little tin pieces on the bottom of your heads.
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

jason wrote:
Dont forget the little tin pieces on the bottom of your heads.


the ones under the head? they're there....maybe hard to see
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Boosten Ya(Josh) wrote:
IMO that is a horrible placement for a wastegate. Kind of hard to control exhaust flow to the turbo if you only control 1 cyl exhaust flow.

Good job on moving it to the collector.


Technically, it's a horrible spot.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

I meant these,

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

good eye....I do not have those -- musta never been on my original engine way back when.
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Boosten Ya(Josh)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Dauz wrote:
Boosten Ya(Josh) wrote:
IMO that is a horrible placement for a wastegate. Kind of hard to control exhaust flow to the turbo if you only control 1 cyl exhaust flow.

Good job on moving it to the collector.


Technically, it's a horrible spot.


The way CB installed the WG flange? Or moving it to the collector?
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07' Ford Ranger - New DD.

71' Super beetle - prostreet trans 4.10 gear, 1641cc with dual 40 IDFs, W110, and a 1-1/2qt deep oil pan.
Needs: cage, seats, harnesses, better suspension, new wheels, and rear disc brakes.

Almost there....
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kangaboy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Boosten Ya(Josh) wrote:

The way CB installed the WG flange? Or moving it to the collector?


The way CB installed it. I left mine in the original spot, but my wastegate is kinda tucked inside between the head and the sled tin. It works fine, but seems kinda silly there. I'll prolly chop off the flange and move it to the collector one day like mentioned in this thread.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Ok that's what I thought.

Do you get a lot of boost creep?
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07' Ford Ranger - New DD.

71' Super beetle - prostreet trans 4.10 gear, 1641cc with dual 40 IDFs, W110, and a 1-1/2qt deep oil pan.
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

In CB's defense, there's not a lot of great places to put it with that header. And they want an off-the-shelf header that works, so everythings a compromise. And Pat Downs builds better engines that I can dream of all day long, so maybe its not a problem.

Being an engineer, I'd love to build two headers, one with the WG off of just one of the cylinders, and one with it off the collector and see how that affects things.
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Boosten Ya(Josh)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Yeah the main reason is to control exhaust flow to only allow enough exhaust to spin the turbo at a certain rpm. aka positive pressure. By only controlling 1 cylinder the (in this case 4 cyl) other 3 cylinders will push all the exhaust that flows out of the motor and spins the turbo even faster and thus overboost happens.

Just a little explanation. I know most of ya'll know this, but if anyone was wondering why wastegate placement is critical. Now you have an idea.
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07' Ford Ranger - New DD.

71' Super beetle - prostreet trans 4.10 gear, 1641cc with dual 40 IDFs, W110, and a 1-1/2qt deep oil pan.
Needs: cage, seats, harnesses, better suspension, new wheels, and rear disc brakes.

Almost there....
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Splitdog
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Mine's in that location and works fine. Steady @ 15 lbs.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Boosten Ya(Josh) wrote:
Yeah the main reason is to control exhaust flow to only allow enough exhaust to spin the turbo at a certain rpm. aka positive pressure. By only controlling 1 cylinder the (in this case 4 cyl) other 3 cylinders will push all the exhaust that flows out of the motor and spins the turbo even faster and thus overboost happens.

Just a little explanation. I know most of ya'll know this, but if anyone was wondering why wastegate placement is critical. Now you have an idea.


AKA "boost creep"

edit: my bad.. it was already mentioned.
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