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theDrew Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011 Posts: 1155 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:17 am Post subject: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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Thought I'd start my very own build thread cause I'm that excited about it.
This is my first adventure with a turbo -- advice is always welcomed.
I've been planning this for a while, its exciting to see it starting to come together.
I'm trying to size everything so I can eventually use it with E85.
I'll try and keep things updated as I work on it.
Build Specs:
-AS41 mag case, std bore & thrust
-AA 4340 crank
-5.400 h beams w/ ARP2000 bolts
-ACN Squishies
-Web Cams 86b
-Steve Tims' Stage 2 heads, 59cc chambers
-Udo tool steel lifters
-8740 8mm head studs
-total seal gapless 2nd rings
-T3/T4 turbo from Shag, .48 ar
-TiAL 38mm wastegate
-Turbosmart Vee Port PRO blow off valve
-CB's hideaway header
-FiveO motor sports black ops 1000cc injectors
-CB's high flow injected manifolds (matched by Steve Tims & Co)
-intake and intercooler still to be worked out
-single throttle body -- prolly 50mm.
-MS3X ecu
-LS2 coils
-Mario's cam sync
-a whole grip of sensors
Here my 74 super
_________________ Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25
Last edited by theDrew on Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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theDrew Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011 Posts: 1155 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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my case back from the parts washer:
measuring main bearings
main bearing clearances are .0020 - 0.0025
after everything is back from being balanced, cleaning and assembling
cleaning cylinders over and over and over
_________________ Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25
Last edited by theDrew on Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:40 am; edited 3 times in total |
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theDrew Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011 Posts: 1155 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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Mocking things up and setting my DH.
With my heads being 59cc, I have to run a bit bigger DH than I'd like.
With the squishes having the 4.3cc hump on it, it makes things a bit interesting, my deck height tool is cut up to accomidate it.
After consulting John @ ACN, I'm shooting for a .070 dh, which puts my static compression at 9.4:1
_________________ Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25 |
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jfats808 Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2007 Posts: 5022 Location: oahu hawaii
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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I hope john doesn't consider the picture part of the NDA. Although it's obscured by the plate and dial. You may want to remove it asap. _________________ 2276 IDA's 86C 11-1 DD !
2017 48 Trijet DRLA's W125
Rockstar Suzuki wrote: |
You might as well put 10 year build in your bullshit sig, as it will NEVER run. Also your a dick |
You can always learn something new, even from a fool.
Check your oil levels routinely! |
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theDrew Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011 Posts: 1155 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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jfats808 wrote: |
I hope john doesn't consider the picture part of the NDA. Although it's obscured by the plate and dial. You may want to remove it asap. |
the tops are obscured and and I'm really not trying to violate anything _________________ Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25 |
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jason Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002 Posts: 3444 Location: Garage
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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Does he still bother? I didnt get one or sign anything with mine. Not saying its alright either. |
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UK Luke 72 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2011 Posts: 2867 Location: Little Britain
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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Following this
What exactly is under the NDA? Just the outline? the angle of the hump? The CCs are widely known, I don't see what he can actually do other than legally protect the name (super-squish)... If EMPI started leaving a dome on the piston that was kind a around 4.3cc and kinda sloped toward the ex side of the chamber not saying it'd be as good as johns but...
Onto bearing clearances is that measure with the bore gauge or Plastigauge?
How come you aren't going for a turbo specific cam grind? |
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theDrew Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011 Posts: 1155 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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UK Luke 72 wrote: |
Onto bearing clearances is that measure with the bore gauge or Plastigauge?
How come you aren't going for a turbo specific cam grind? |
bore gauge
I'm using the mentality that any NA grind will be even better under boost. _________________ Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25 |
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theDrew Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011 Posts: 1155 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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few more measurements i'll add:
using total seal gapless 2nd rings
using their guidance, gaped the rings to 0.021
(up to 15lbs = 3.70079in x 0.0055 = 0.0203”)
rod side play was 0.010 - 0.011 _________________ Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25 |
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Dauz Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010 Posts: 1790
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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Good luck! |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5966 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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I will be watching this, as I am working on a 2232 efi turbo build. Undecided on a header and turbo at this point. Having SL prep a turbo and making the header myself is most likely at this point.
Are those the "thick" 94 cylinders? _________________ modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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theDrew Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011 Posts: 1155 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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Got the block together last night. I'd put it together and taken it apart so many times its nice to finally declare it done.
some highlights:
CB's max-flow pickup
went over the all the edges on the cam with a smooth file
udo becker tool steel lifters
CB's pro series straight cut cam gear, running straight up
last look at the internals
get yourself one of these....makes life much easier
and p&c's in, i clocked all the rings according to total seals guidance
_________________ Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25 |
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theDrew Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011 Posts: 1155 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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esde wrote: |
I will be watching this, as I am working on a 2232 efi turbo build. Undecided on a header and turbo at this point. Having SL prep a turbo and making the header myself is most likely at this point.
Are those the "thick" 94 cylinders? |
talk with Shag, he's helpful and extremely knowledgable.
no, standard thickness 94's. Either here or STF's someone was saying the standard AA cylinders are good up till about 300hp, which is higher than what I'm shooting for. _________________ Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25 |
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bpritchert87 The Idea Man
Joined: February 26, 2007 Posts: 1507 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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Drew,
Love the build! Definitely will be following.
Two quick questions, Did the heads have to be setup
any differently for a turbo build?
I thought I read somewhere that turbos will eat up the
valve guides or something about how heads need to be
setup for turbos (of course lower compression/larger chambers)
but did not know if anything else had to be changed..
Also how was your last build performance wise?
I am looking to run something very very similar and
want to understand how yours ran before..
Thanks! _________________ Knowledge is Power Read and Learn !!!
The Intelligence of a Man should not be measured by his age....
check out my sand rover t bug build! http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=287204 |
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theDrew Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011 Posts: 1155 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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bpritchert87 wrote: |
Drew,
Two quick questions, Did the heads have to be setup
any differently for a turbo build?
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no idea -- I'm not doing anything different other than lowering the CR
bpritchert87 wrote: |
Also how was your last build performance wise?
I am looking to run something very very similar and
want to understand how yours ran before..
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it ripped, I loved it... I ran around with it NA for 3yrs, I want more and love a challange, so here we are. _________________ Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25 |
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Dauz Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010 Posts: 1790
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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theDrew wrote: |
esde wrote: |
I will be watching this, as I am working on a 2232 efi turbo build. Undecided on a header and turbo at this point. Having SL prep a turbo and making the header myself is most likely at this point.
Are those the "thick" 94 cylinders? |
talk with Shag, he's helpful and extremely knowledgable.
no, standard thickness 94's. Either here or STF's someone was saying the standard AA cylinders are good up till about 300hp, which is higher than what I'm shooting for. |
Agreed. I know where he gets his turbochargers built. Of whom will just sell you the turbos and parts. Shag will actually recommend what wheel specs, compressor housing, and turbine to go with based on your specific application. All without marking up the price of the unit. |
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jason Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002 Posts: 3444 Location: Garage
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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I like to put the oil pump in before torqing, just me. Did you check those cam gears for run out and lash? Mine were so far off it wasn't funny. Like your hidden trigger. |
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theDrew Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011 Posts: 1155 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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i checked the cam end play a while back, it was spec, I can't remember what it was.
i couldn't feel any lash, but I didn't actually measure it.
my old AA straight gear set had lash I could feel, so I took this as improvement _________________ Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25 |
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theDrew Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011 Posts: 1155 Location: Camas, WA
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Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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no work last night, but here's some of the goodies i'm stoked about
turbo by shag. .48 AR, shag's recommendation since I wont be going over 7k rpm (or for long)
close up of the trigger wheel (from Mario @ dubshop). Some advice, pay him to do the machining. I had to go back to my machine shop 2x to get it just right. CB's serp belt setup.
TiAL 38mm wastegate. 7 psi spring in it. I have a boost controller for the MS3 when I'm ready to go higher. I'm a sucker for shiny colored anodized parts
_________________ Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25 |
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67rustavenger Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2015 Posts: 9756 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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Nice build thread. Thanks for this. Though I'll never build something like this, it's interesting to follow along.
Is this beast gonna be ready for the NW Bug Run? I hope so. I'd really like to have a look at your engine.
Keep posting updates.
Good Luck. _________________ I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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