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Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are?
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clicknathan
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:10 pm    Post subject: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

As I'm trying to learn as much as I can about my 78 FI Bus, I've come across a few things I can't figure out as to what they are

1. Coolant cap?
Hmmm. What is this cooling?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


2. A hose comes from my air box to this contraption. It has two holes on the top which seem like they want to have a hose on them. But to where?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


3. The blue plastic thing seen in this photo...there are two of them. Not sure if it's related, but my Bus wouldn't idle today, or even really want to run at all. Found one of them unplugged and after plugging it back in, she's a runner again.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thanks a ton for any info you might have!
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aerosurfer
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

First picture is a vacuum line from your brake booster. Should be a one way check valve, its now likely a cap over a port fort checking vacuum preasure

Second pic is charcoal cannister for scaveging fuel vapors. Lower hose connects to the side of the fan shroudn upper hose goes into your airbox.

Third pic is the plug for your fuel injectors
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

First picture is a coolant flush tee someone used as a hose splice.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

I would bet your brakes are pretty hard to apply if the engine isn't running and that your engine runs very poorly. I am hoping you didn't pay all that much for your Bay as I bet it has dozens of poorly done juryrigs that are going to need to be addressed.
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clicknathan
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

So that "coolant anti-freeze" cap and what's beneath there isn't supposed to be there at all? If not, then you guys are saying this should be there instead?: http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?id=24494

Wildthings, yeah, my brakes are pretty weak. I mean, not too weak to drive safely, but no body is stopping on any dimes around here.

And double yeah, she's got a ton of problems, more and more lately it seems. But I've managed to keep her going (with loads of help) for years and years and many many miles of traveling. Guess I was lucky for awhile there. Smile

Lately I spend a significant portion of my days trying to figure as much out as I can, so that hopefully I can keep her on the road for years to come.

But, it sounds like you might have additional insight into the weak brakes from these pictures. Would be quite happy to hear. Smile
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clicknathan
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

Found another curiosity.

The wires from these run one way to the coil, connecting to one of the three positive terminals, and also to the oil pressure sensor. Then they run the other way to the firewall behind the air filter.

As in the picture, they are not now, nor have ever been plugged in for the 8 or so years I've owned and driven this thing.


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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

clicknathan wrote:
Found another curiosity.

The wires from these run one way to the coil, connecting to one of the three positive terminals, and also to the oil pressure sensor. Then they run the other way to the firewall behind the air filter.

As in the picture, they are not now, nor have ever been plugged in for the 8 or so years I've owned and driven this thing.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I am going to guess that they once went to your missing heater booster fan.

How about some pics of your engine compartment from several different angles.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:13 am    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

You need to get the Muir book ( called the " idiot book" here, no offense, it's actually in the title) and go through it with a nice cup of coffee and get it tune with your Bus.

Nice observational skills sorting out that fuel injector plug.

When someone has done the kind of patches we can see in the pictures its no stretch to expect they have missed the things that will kill you by poison, fire, or plague of frogs.
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clicknathan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

Quote:
You need to get the Muir book ( called the " idiot book" here, no offense, it's actually in the title) and go through it with a nice cup of coffee and get it tune with your Bus.


I do have that book, Abscate, and spend quite a bit of time inside of it. I've also ordered the Bentley manual because it takes quite some time to read through Muir's book. For example, I was following along with several pages regarding Electronic Fuel Injection, puzzled by things not being the same in mine, only to find that since I'm AFC instead of EFI, many things don't apply. Still, I do find the Idiot's guide quite useful. Spending more time this morning working through everything AFC.

Quote:
How about some pics of your engine compartment from several different angles.


Thanks for your time, Wildthings (and everyone!), very much appreciated.

A few pictures have been added below of the engine from various angles. Once the kids wake up and I can put the bed up, I can add a top level view or two. I've got a ton of "notes" below as well, hopefully it's not information overload.

I spent some time last evening just going through the fuel injection system to try and get acquainted with it. If you wouldn't mind, care to tell me what A is in the photo below? And I'm having trouble finding the Auxiliary Air Regulator, too, though admittedly I probably just need to look further.

And when various places reference the "control unit", are they talking about the actual Air Flow Control Meter (grey box with butterfly toggle inside, hooks directly to the air box and has a plug / connector that comes out of the back?)

Also still not sure what A1 is in this photo:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I've been looking into getting a new fuel relay. Mine is a 1978. Bus Depot states that there is one Fuel Relay for 1979+ engines that met California Emissions. Mine is a 78, but had a sticker on the inside of the engine compartment (before it got painted) that I recall saying something about CA Emissions.

So I'm curious if B in the picture below should be replaced with https://www.busdepot.com/071906059
or http://www.busdepot.com/0332514121

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I do get a lot of oil in the area marked as C in this photo, too. Someone mentioned on another thread that I am missing some type of rubber boot on the oil sensor…

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Right now, I'm actually trying to figure out why I get a lot of sputtering when shifting gears, too.

I've got a new but suspect fuel pump which I plan to change today. It was one I found down here and was told would work, but can't find online. I've got a regular one now and will switch it out today to see if performance improves. If it doesn't, I'll hen redo the timing again, since when I did it last I was at sea level and I'm now at 4,000 feet. I've been told that if I move the distributor a bit forward as elevation increases, that can have a positive effect. Definitely open to thoughts on that.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


That's a leaf in the fan, removed it of course.

Other new / replaced parts in this engine are:

1. New short block in 2010
2. New spark plugs & wires less than 1000 miles / 3 months ago
3. The rotor, cap, condenser within 3000 miles. New point the other day.
4. AFC meter was replaced Summer 2016
5. New coil 1000 miles ago

1000 miles ago, I did a compression test and everything was around 120, no major variation. Plan to do another today.

When following along in the John Muir book, there's mention of a a fuel damper…but I can't seem to find it according to the text & diagrams (I've got a Bentley manual on the way, but don't have it yet), I don't see one. Is it built into the fuel pump these days or maybe I just missed it / can't see it?

I definitely realize this is a lot of information, and so to anyone who takes the time to review it and provide some info, I just want you to know it's really appreciated.

I have a long list of parts I'm ready to order from Bus Depot, as well, which will take at least a week to get here (I'm in Mexico), but I'm ready to drop a little money in order to try and get some of this stuff sorted once and for all. I don't mind working on my Bus at all, but maybe once in awhile it'd be nice to have a weekend or even an afternoon to go out sightseeing and play with my kids instead of being elbows deep in grease. Smile
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tristessa
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

EFI == Electronic Fuel Injection. AFC == Air Flow Controlled, a specific KIND of EFI. Since AFC was the only EFI factory-installed on Bays there's no need to specify (here) what kind of EFI you're working with.

"A" is the decel valve. Check the hoses going to it for leaks, check that the internal diaphragm isn't shot. Both are common situations that give huge vacuum leaks.

If the fuel pump/double relay "B" works, leave it alone. New ones are spendy and you've undoubtedly got other things to address that you could better use the money on.

That's the AFM (Air Flow Meter) not the control box (ECU, brain). ECU fits a slot near the battery on the passenger side.

The most worrisome thing I see in the area of "C" is what looks like a leaking cold-start injector weeping fuel onto the engine. Absolutely check that, people have lost everything to engine fires because of that thing leaking .. and good luck finding a NEW one (as opposed to good used) because they've been globally NLA for some time. Even the Porsche people don't have any. Yes there's a rubber boot around the wire to the oil sensor, but unless the sensor is absolutely pissing oil upwards it's not your problem. Best to have the seal but not a deal-breaker if you don't -- vacuum leaks and disconnected injectors are going to have MUCH more impact on the longevity of your engine than that seal being missing...


I totally hear you about it being nice to be NOT working on the Bus for a change. My days off for the last few months have mostly been spent working on an engine/transmission installation with my '75 .. around the rain, snow and subfreezing temperatures we've been having in Portland. An 8'4" hightop Bus doesn't fit under a 6'10" carport very well... Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

If the amount of questions, info and pictures I'm supplying here is ridiculous, please, just let me know.

Did a bit more digging this morning.

Fuel Relay

The part # on the fuel relay is 0 332 514 120
Which is one number off from the part listed for 79 Buses with California Emissions that Bus Depot has: https://www.busdepot.com/071906059
But this part # matches from a UK Amazon site, and while I can't verify the prongs, the diagram on the outside of the black looks to be the same: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosch-0332514120-Relay/dp/B004Z0W1C6

Here's my right connector:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And the front of the entire unit:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Air Box
The back of my airbox has a hole for a hose, shown below, but no hose is attached. Is that how it's supposed to be?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Air Flow Meter

There's a hole on top of my Air Flow Meter. Should this somehow connect to something, or is it for making adjustments?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Then in this picture, looking down into the barrel of the AFC meter, the flap is slightly open by default. Is that normal?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Auxiliary Air Regulator

I have seen pictures of the Aux Air Regulator online (http://www.busdepot.com/049133453-42), but can't locate it. While it's hard to see in the picture below, I'm wondering if this is at least where it's located. I wanted to test it but would love to know if I'm looking in the right place before I start tearing things apart trying to get at it / find it.

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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

clicknathan wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Your AAR shows in the upper left side of this picture, it is no longer in its original position.

All the pictures of your AFM and air cleaner in your last post look to be normal.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

tristessa wrote:
"A" is the decel valve. Check the hoses going to it for leaks, check that the internal diaphragm isn't shot. Both are common situations that give huge vacuum leaks.


I read this on the decel valve: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462400
Interesting, as my Bus definitely pops when I am decelerating. Has for as long as I've had her, if I recall correctly.

So, I checked the hoses. The one that runs to a T in the brake booster hose was great, and the small one coming out of the other side was too. The other one, that runs to the hose connecting to the AFC meter, is old and was pretty bad, so I taped it up a bunch for now until stores open up again tomorrow.

How would I know if the internal diaphragm is shot? Doesn't seem like I can open that thing up.

Doing a part check, the part number shows up as this: http://www.busdepot.com/0280160303
Which Bus Depot calls a Vacuum Limiter. Always love the prices on these pieces of metal. Sad

Quote:
If the fuel pump/double relay "B" works, leave it alone. New ones are spendy and you've undoubtedly got other things to address that you could better use the money on.


I tried testing this via the instructions in the Idiot Guide on Page 163, under "Step 1. Check Main Relay" and Step 2 for the Fuel Pump Relay, as well as cross referencing this Ratwell page: http://www.ratwell.com/technical/DoubleRelay.html

Thing is, the Idiot's Guide says "Set your VOM to 0-15, 0-30 or 0-50 DCV". My meter's option are 200, 20, 2000m, 200m. I set it to 20.

I turned the key and tested all of the slots in both connectors, but got no reading at all, just 0.00 and occassionally a - symbol would show up. I'm very new to these machines, FYI.

But the Idiot's guide references 30/51 and 86 & 87, but while my box has an 86 on the main relay (the one on the right), it doesn't have 87, 30/51. Same with the 86/87 on the left / fuel pump relay. It has 86a, 86c and 85, but no plain old 86 or 87.

What am I not getting here?

Quote:
That's the AFM (Air Flow Meter) not the control box (ECU, brain). ECU fits a slot near the battery on the passenger side.


Found it. Smile

Quote:
The most worrisome thing I see in the area of "C" is what looks like a leaking cold-start injector weeping fuel onto the engine. Absolutely check that, people have lost everything to engine fires because of that thing leaking .. and good luck finding a NEW one (as opposed to good used) because they've been globally NLA for some time. Even the Porsche people don't have any.


Okay, I checked the two hoses going into it, and felt around the metal part. There don't appear to be any visible cracks or leaks, and the clamps were tight (just retightened them very well, too).

I have found info online about this system, checking it electronically, but nothing about how to see if it's leaking or broken.

Should I fire up the Bus and watch/smell to see if gas literally is coming out?

Sounds dangerous, but if it has been leaking, and is the cause of all of this mess in this area, it's probably been doing it for months (at least). So maybe that's the best method to test this?

Here's a more detailed view of the cold start:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Quote:
Yes there's a rubber boot around the wire to the oil sensor, but unless the sensor is absolutely pissing oil upwards it's not your problem. Best to have the seal but not a deal-breaker if you don't -- vacuum leaks and disconnected injectors are going to have MUCH more impact on the longevity of your engine than that seal being missing...


Quote:
I totally hear you about it being nice to be NOT working on the Bus for a change. My days off for the last few months have mostly been spent working on an engine/transmission installation with my '75 .. around the rain, snow and subfreezing temperatures we've been having in Portland. An 8'4" hightop Bus doesn't fit under a 6'10" carport very well... Laughing


I feel you there. At least it's all warm and sunny days here in Mexico. Smile

Thank you so much for your help, man, I really should be paying you. Maybe I'll make it to Portland and can buy you a beer or a tank or two of gas some day.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

Quote:
Your AAR shows in the upper left side of this picture, it is no longer in its original position.


No longer in it's original position. Fun. Smile

Is that causing me problems?

For example, I did the procedure for checking this in the Muir book, page 164 & 165.

"To check the auxiliary air regulator pull the hose off between the AAR and the intake air distributor but leave it attached to the regulator."

On the left, #1 in this picture goes to the intake air distributor. #2 goes back to the a Y connection that then runs to the decel valve and into the big plastic/rubber tube that connects to the AFC meter, not the regulator.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I blew through all of the tubes anyway, and it seemed like I could blow through them. Didn't feel like trying to blow up a new balloon, anyway, where I could get the air out of my mouth and into the pipe. I also blew through the AAR too, as I had grime all over my mouth anyway, so why not? Didn't appear to be anything in there either.

More from the Muir book:
"Blow through the hose and if you can blow through it, the AAR is OK, but if the hose is clogged up, you'll have to replace the AAR."

So, maybe I'm good and don't need a new one of these? Or is the fact that it's not hooked up in the right spot / possibly to the right hoses a factor here?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

Hose #1 should go to the intake air plenum (intake air distributor) and hose #2 should go to the S-boot. From what I can see from the photos what you have is correct. The AAR is nothing but an electrically heated/controlled valve. When you look through the valve when cold there should be a small opening visible, but once the engine has been run for a few minutes and the heater in the valve has warmed the aperture should be closed. The valve may clog over time, but I have never heard of the hoses clogging, though they can certainly leak air causing a lean mixture.

The original location of the valve was not one of VW's better idea, just make sure your valve can't interfere with anything and can't fall into the fan if a hose came off.

It looks like your thermostat-flap system isn't working. If you want to drive your van in cooler weather then it is best to have this system working.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

Charcoal filter can go
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

Elvisbarnsley wrote:
Charcoal filter can go


No reason to make it go if it works okay and if one does remove it they need to make sure the tank will vent properly.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
The valve may clog over time, but I have never heard of the hoses clogging, though they can certainly leak air causing a lean mixture.


It doesn't look clogged and I can definitely see through it.

Quote:
It looks like your thermostat-flap system isn't working. If you want to drive your van in cooler weather then it is best to have this system working.


Looking into this now, but...

Temperature Sensor II

Is this it? This is basically to the left, looking down from the rear of the Bus, near the #3 cylinder.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If so, nothing is attached to it.

I found this, but it doesn't connect to that spot and this isn't looking like the pictures I've seen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

I see your post & pic of a 78 TSII here too Wildthings: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4341562#4341562

With the zoom in / crop of it though I can't tell exactly where that's at though.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: Odds n' ends. Anyone know what these random parts are? Reply with quote

Or maybe it's this guy? this is between 1 & 2

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