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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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 Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:46 am Post subject: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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I am swapping out the old steel coolant pipes with rubber hose (also for the heater hoses). Everything is now set for installation (except I don't have the hoses yet  --- should arrive on Tuesday. This is the stuff I ordered: http://www.konekt-hk.cz/fagumit-hadice-na-paru-143-c-525/
31.5mm ID /// 41.5mm OD +143*c 4BAR (pressure)
My hope is to get them running all the way from the engine to the front without any connections whatsoever --- the only challenge potentially preventing this is the 90* bend required to get up to the upper radiator inlet. I have a plan for this although not yet 100% sure if it will work > just have to try and see... I found a metal elbow with an ID of 46mm which is 4.5mm larger than the OD of the hoses, therefore the hoses (41.5mm ID) should slide in easily but be snug enough to hopefully inhibit the hose from buckling when bend. Here is that elbow which I will of course chamfer the sharp edges before using.
Otherwise, I was under there just now planning where exactly I will put the hose hangers. I will run the two big coolant hoses plus one of the heater hoses thru large ID hose hangers - this is the proposed routing.
Under the tank, no hangers are required, but I will "tie" the hoses together > it is here that all 4 hoses will meet and be united (tied) together.
3 hangers between tank and 45* slope up to the engine compartment...
Then lastly in that open gapping area when the hose goes down 45* from the engine to the horizontal under body, I will put two hose hangers, one of them will extend down quite a bit --- I will have to use a long all-thread in order to achieve this.
For that single heater hose which exits from the back of the HEAD, I will also use a couple of long extended hose hangers (another all thread for this), then small single hose hangers up to the tank - under the tank all hoses will come together.
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dobryan
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bluebus86
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Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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add some closed cell foam pipe insulation as needed to prevent the water hose from contacting tbe fuel tank, you dont want your fuel preheated. very nice hose hangers you have found, slick.
good luck
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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I will test the 90* bend without the spring inside first... if it bends then I will try the spring in there also...
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For sure a big concern is that the shift linkage won't hit the hose (I need to find a smaller clamp to replace that bike seat clamp (which works great!)
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Good idea to insulate the pipes over the tank... I found these old things in the attic 
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Ahwahnee
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Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9810
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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| djkeev wrote: |
A large steel coil spring inserted in the hose often helps prevent kinking or collapsing.
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Where's the 'Like' button on this thing? |
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pablum
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Joined: December 17, 2015
Posts: 562
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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epowell, are you in some kinda quantum state that makes you wobble back and forth between the CR and BC? Maybe it's just observer error, but that's how it seems from here.
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epowell
Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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| pablum wrote: |
| epowell, are you in some kinda quantum state that makes you wobble back and forth between the CR and BC? Maybe it's just observer error, but that's how it seems from here. |
Nope... you got it exactly right  Not too much wobbling tho > I now live in Czech near Ostrava, but am from Vancouver and return to visit Mom each year for a month. [and have relatives all down the Calif. coast]
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pablum
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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| epowell wrote: |
| pablum wrote: |
| epowell, are you in some kinda quantum state that makes you wobble back and forth between the CR and BC? Maybe it's just observer error, but that's how it seems from here. |
Nope... you got it exactly right Not too much wobbling tho > I now live in Czech near Ostrava, but am from Vancouver and return to visit Mom each year for a month. [and have relatives all down the Calif. coast] |
I swear I thought I saw you changing positions several times a week...
too much time on theSamba. Maybe I should take that hint...
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Terry Kay
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Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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Good Dick Danger Private Eye observances.
Any hose regardless how you want to attempt this miracle act will not take that tight 90.
He'd have to be Louis Farrakhan to get this done the hard way.
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djkeev
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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Nor will the hose be able to be heat stretched to get over that steel elbow, nor will any sort of hose, whatever it's size be able to fit on that short shouldered elbow.
It sure won't stay on there very long.
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crazyvwvanman
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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At least try to bicker over the right subject matter. Ed wasn't planning to put the curved metal pipe inside the rubber hose.
He gave the pipe and hose dimensions earlier. He was talking about putting the curved section of pipe OVER the hose in position over the part of the hose where he wants to have the sharp bend.
"I found a metal elbow with an ID of 46mm which is 4.5mm larger than the OD of the hoses, therefore the hoses (41.5mm ID) should slide in easily but be snug enough to hopefully inhibit the hose from buckling when bend."
Mark |
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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:18 am Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
At least try to bicker over the right subject matter. Ed wasn't planning to put the curved metal pipe inside the rubber hose.
He gave the pipe and hose dimensions earlier. He was talking about putting the curved section of pipe OVER the hose in position over the part of the hose where he wants to have the sharp bend.
"I found a metal elbow with an ID of 46mm which is 4.5mm larger than the OD of the hoses, therefore the hoses (41.5mm ID) should slide in easily but be snug enough to hopefully inhibit the hose from buckling when bend."
Mark |
I'm pretty confident that I will be able to get the hose thru that elbow, and equally confident that it won't buckle (enough to make a neg. difference)... but my concern is if the hose, being somewhat forced into this 90* bend, would somehow then be prone to more rapid deterioration like that? I don't know enough (or anything) about high heat hoses in this application to ascertain this. My guess is that in time the high heat of the coolant would change the shape of the hose. ...the outside part of the bend is being stretched - while the inside part is being compressed >>> I wonder if a very small amount of "pre-bending" with a heat gun (very very gentle heat!!) might reduce the shock of stretching the hose later?
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johnbyrdgates
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Joined: August 24, 2011
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Location: Rockport, MA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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Laudable goal! I look at all the hose clamps under my van, many of which have rusted badly, and cringe. I hope you succeed!
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bluebus86
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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the heat should expand the hose so it will slip over the pipe, and it will shrink back to normal size when cooled. Heat may make it more plyible. I doubt you will get the hose to take a new set with heat, the hose is made for heat of the coolant. it was molded by heat but also vulcanized that is why prebent hoses keep their shape, dont expect a straight hose to take on a new shape from resetting with heat applied, this is not like melting a plastic model car, when heat can permanetly give a new shape via melting and cooling. the hose is of a material closer to the rubber on your tires than to the polystyrene of the model car. the rubber hose shape is set into the structure when it was molded, reheating will not melt it.
thats not to say some permenant deformation wont accure, it just wont be a whole lot. the hose will wrinkle when pushed over the bent pipe, the wrinkles wont go away with heat much if any, and the hose will strighten back out for the most part if the bent pipe were to be removed. but the bent pipe may be just fine for preventing the hose to kink, it will not be fun to fit it. If the radius of the bend was larger, it would be easier to install, and less hose wrinklege. If you got room, a larger radius would be better. for that buy some conduit and have a shop with a pipe bender (plumber, electrician, etc...should have a bender) bend the pipe to the larger radius.
I have used some pretty thick stiff cooling hose that would be very very hard to fit on that pipe, but it is the heavy duty hose, really thick walls, reinforced. softer, thinner wall standard hose would be easier to bend over this pipe if it can be done. again, round the edges, lube with soap, heat to expand and soften hose. That will be your best bet of getting this hose on the pipe, if not, flex hose, hose to pipe joints at elbows, stock or other options are available.
good luck
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Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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epowell
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Joined: September 23, 2015
Posts: 4733
Location: Czech (mostly) Vancouver (sometimes)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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no no... I am not putting the hose around the pipe... I am putting the pipe around the hose.
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Terry Kay
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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Here are the two easiest answers, easiest to install, easiest to adapt, longest term solution.
I have no idea while you are so block headed to go here, what you have implanted just will not work.
Throw that steel tubing in the dump.
& you can re-word the subject matter anyway you want, what you got here is just a hobo repair at best.
Is $10-$15.00 going to put you in debters prison so you can do the job properly?
Drive you into BK ?
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amwaj
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Location: the desert
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:05 am Post subject: Re: Rubber main coolant/heater hoses: installation |
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order a set of stainless from Terry and be done with the experimenting, while your ideas do bear some merit, remember the stainless steel pipes do act as radiators, and there are insulation kits to install in the fuel tank areas...
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dobryan
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