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82 WestyRabbit Restoration
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82westyrabbit
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

Actually there is a mounting spot for the knock sensor in vary close to the right spot. I was really hoping not to have to rebuild a engine. Of my many skill rebuilding car engines is not one of them. My tools just aren't geared towards that. I have a friend who wants to help me with it (he has the right tools and skills). Some times you just have to storm a around for a while until you sit down and do what's right. I will probably pull the heads off both engines today or tomorrow and decided what I am going to do. If I can get a hold of the people at FAS today to see what they think of the tiico head on a 1.8 block idea. This is to much thinking and not enough work.
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

Thats interesting that your 1.8 block has a knock sensor mounting boss.

techtonics tuning may be another useful resource re head/block combinations.

http://techtonicstuning.com

metropoj has posted here of the Tiico. Heres one showing some parts and part numbers:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=476734&view=previous

I may regret saying this as I haven't started the engine yet, but as kind of a newb to rebuilding an engine, I didn't find rebuilding the VW I4 too difficult. But I did ask for help from this and the water cooled forums. Wink
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1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

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82westyrabbit
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

The mounting boss on the 1.8 was not designed for a knock sensor but it is in the right place. I don't know if it would work for a knock sensor or not. I think I will pull the head off the tiico engine next week and see what it looks like inside. I really was hoping not to rebuild a engine but if I have to I will. I am just back where I started. Trying to decide if I want to use what I have or get something else. Vanagon nut your replies and links have been most helpful thanks
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

As to rebuilding, in hindsight, I would've taken more time sourcing out machine shops. Basically, you need to find one you trust that has experienced machinists. Would suggest limiting work on block you choose to a thorough bore inspection to start with. If the block checks out, and pistons aren't too bad, you might "get away with" rings, bearings, seals, maybe some head work. IMO, once you start adding on costs for boring, honing, larger pistons, it adds up pretty quick. But then you'd have a rebuilt that could last for many more miles. Problem is, the 1.8, ABA are pretty old now. But you never know; you might find a good used one.

Neil.
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1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

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82westyrabbit
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

I email FAS over the weekend and they called me back. They have most off the parts I need for whatever configuration I decided to go. They think I should use the tiico adapter and flywheel instead of the diesel bell housing and flywheel so the van will run a gas clutch and stater. I have not yet decided. I have the parts for both. I will pull the head off the Tiico engine this weekend and then try to decide what to do. The pro's and con's are overwhelming. I just need some time to start down the path and things will become clear. Thanks for the input
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

I understand. And having so many options (I'm learning) and flexibility within the realm of VW parts makes picking a path harder. Personally, I try to go with whatever might be most easily available. But then if one breaks down in a small GM/Ford/Dodge town, chances are VW parts are at least a day out. Wink

Neil.
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1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

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82westyrabbit
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

Hi. I pulled the head off the Tiico engine block today the cylinders are not perfect. I have to talk to a friend about the cylinders to decide what I am going to do. The pictures I took are not good enough to post. If I have to rebuild the Tiico lower end I don't think I will. I will rebuild my 1.8 GX block or go looking for a 2.0 aba Block instead. The jury is still out on what the best move is.
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

Sorry to hear of Tiico block bore condition. Well, not that you asked but.... Wink

Personally, I'd use-rebuild either the GX block (assuming Digifant/Motronic knock sensor would for sure work properly on it) or ABA block, install new Tiico head, used Tiico intake, Motronic. I think that's feasible.

This is a very general observation based upon somewhat limited experience but most ABA donor cars with high miles will likely have a wiring harness that needs repairs.
_________________
1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

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82westyrabbit
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:52 am    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

That's kind of my thinking. I have two GX engines. I was thinking I should put the Tiico head on the worst of the two engines and see how it goes. If I like it go ahead and rebuild the better of the engines and install it later. I would really like to put the Tiico head on ada block but I don't have one and I have not had time look for one yet. I really don't want to buy a hole car and parts it but I would if I could find the right thing. I could just bolt the Tiico engine back together for the short term and run it but that would leave me in the same place six month from now. Thanks
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

Right. Ok. I can see that strategy. Looking online, it seems the GX has a 8.5:1 compression ratio with 85 HP. This is pure speculation, but assuming the GX has a lower compression ratio than an ABA or Tiico, if using the Tiico head on GX block with GX pistons, what compression ratio do you end up with and how does it work with Digifant, Motronic or whatever engine management? However, reading online, it seems some CIS engine owners have swapped in the 1.8 RV head with the larger diamater valves. But then maybe CIS fueling can be adjusted? I bet the Tiico head uses the same size valves as the RV head.

If you didn't have time to rebuild an ABA, a reconditioned ABA might be an option (though I don't see new pistons or machine work listed but then at $1200..... ). Note that they're closed during December:

http://www.qualitygermanautoparts.com/index.php?p=...ines%20MK3

Neil.


I copied the first source I found but would think these specs are correct:

Engine Code_______GX--------MZ--------HT--------RD--------RV--------PF--------PL--------9A
Cylnders__________4----------4----------4----------4----------4---------4----------4---------4
Bore mm__________81--------81---------81--------81--------81---------81-------81--------82.5
Stroke mm________86.4------86.4-------86.4------86.4------86.4------86.4------86.4------92.8
Displacement cc____1781------1781------1781-----1781------1781-----1781-----1781-----1984
Compression Ratio__8.5:1-----8.5:1------10:1------10:1------10:1------10:1-----10:1-----10:1
[email protected] +/[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@5.8
[email protected] +/[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@4.4
FI System________CIS/CIS(E)--CIS-------CIS(E)--CIS(E)---DIGI1/2--DIGI 2 --CIS(E)--CIS(Motr)
Application Notes___Economy-Canada--GTI/GLI85-GTI/GLI-----------------------16V------16V 2.0L
IN V Head Dia mm__38---------38---------40--------40--------40--------40---------32--------32
EX V Head Dia mm__33---------33---------33--------33--------33--------33--------28--------28
V Stem Dia mm+/-__8----------8-----------8----------8---------8---------8----------7---------7
IN V Length mm____91---------91----------91--------91--------91-------91--------95.5------95.5
EX V Length mm____90.8------90.8--------90.8------90.8-----90.8------90.8------98.2------98.2
_________________
1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

VE7TBN
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82westyrabbit
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

I did a lot of cleaning on the Tiico cylinder head this evening.

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Thanks, Neil, for the engine chart. That is really helpful. The Tiico head does have the 40mm intake valves. The above pictures are included incase anyone can help to identify the cylinder head and cam shaft. I am taking the cylinder head to a machine shop tomorrow. I think if I can get them to take a few thousandths off of the intake and the exhaust side, I am going to be able to reuse this cylinder head. This still leaves me with the question of which block I am going to bolt it on to. It looks like the weather is going to be bad in New England so I may get a full day to work on this thing and make some decisions about what I am going to do.
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zuhandenheit
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

Man, nice work! It's crazy how similar our vans are!! (Except your is nicer)

Original diesel, now with AAZ. I even used Monstaliner!

Some old pictures:

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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

82westyrabbit wrote:


Thanks, Neil, for the engine chart. That is really helpful. The Tiico head does have the 40mm intake valves. The above pictures are included incase anyone can help to identify the cylinder head and cam shaft. I am taking the cylinder head to a machine shop tomorrow. I think if I can get them to take a few thousandths off of the intake and the exhaust side, I am going to be able to reuse this cylinder head. This still leaves me with the question of which block I am going to bolt it on to. It looks like the weather is going to be bad in New England so I may get a full day to work on this thing and make some decisions about what I am going to do.



I googled the head part number. Got a couple hits on South African web sites, which would make sense given the origins of that engine (Remtec South Africa)

FWIW, I got pretty good accuracy using a good quality wood working 24" straight edge and feeler gauges to help determine if my ABA head was warped beyond spec. I'd assume the machine shop would check for excessive warpage before doing any other work on head.

Assuming head is useable, replacing the valve guides might be prudent.

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

VE7TBN
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82westyrabbit
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

Zvhandenheit your van runs and mine doesn't. Maybe your van is nicer. I did that paint job in around 1990 and the monsta liner recently. I like that paint but I may do something different my van has looked like that for a long time and it might be time for a change. I started with a1.6 diesel blew it up then a 1.6td that didn't last long either. The 1.8 gas has been in there a long time.
Hi Neil. I just finished cleaning last night and didn't have time to research any thing. The head surface in straight. I can't get a .0002 feeler gauge under the straight edge anywhere. The surface that the exsust mounts to might be my problem. The pictures don't show it well. Today I will pull the heads of my other two engines. If cylinder head volumes are the same then you should end up with the stock compression for that engine. If not then the compression is anybody's guess and I will have to rethink what I am doing. You sure don't want it less than 8 to 1 or more that 10 to 1. I will clean up the Tiico block today just incase I decide to go that route but new .20 over pistons are $600. My first two phone calls didn't turn up a ABA Block. I will keep working with what I have until I find a ABA or finish something else. I am pretty comited to the motronic fuel injection at this point. You seem to be better at research then your posts are vary helpful
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

Happy to help, or try to help.

You obviously have skills, and it sure sounds like you have engine options. I bet the exhaust/intake surface of head is ok but then I don't have a lot of experience in that dept. Wink

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

82westyrabbit wrote:
Zvhandenheit your van runs and mine doesn't. Maybe your van is nicer. I did that paint job in around 1990 and the monsta liner recently. I like that paint but I may do something different my van has looked like that for a long time and it might be time for a change. I started with a1.6 diesel blew it up then a 1.6td that didn't last long either. The 1.8 gas has been in there a long time.


Well, my paint job is really lame -- I did some extensive body repairs and didn't have the money or other means for a proper paint job, so I used some two-part marine paint and just rolled it on! It originally had single-tone paint, and so I used this dark blue to do a two-tone color scheme like yours. The top part is original. It looks okay from a distance and the paint is tough (a lot better than spray cans or rustoleum), but it is really pretty lame. Plus I had to replace several panels and do a lot of welding, and there's quite a bit of body filler under that paint. Your van looks unmolested.

I started with a 1.6 also, with the intent always to use a 1.6td or AAZ. After the 1.6 blew a head gasket and I parked the van in the garage, I stupidly started on the body work while I sourced a new motor. And at the same time, I started grad school. It was years before the body was even in one piece again, and longer before it ran. My first AAZ sat on the garage floor for two years while I did body work, and only when I was ready to install it did I discover that it was utterly f*cked -- melted piston, mismatched parts, etc. It was almost a total wash and I had to buy a second motor!

Also, I've got some pretty serious bugs to work out of the AAZ, and in fact at the moment it is not running, on account of injector pump issues.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread, but I have never seen another diesel (originally, anyway) van that looks so much like mine!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

Sorry to hear about the engine, by the way.

Like I said above, my first replacement motor was a total piece of junk. I'm planning to eventually take the block to a machine shop and see if it's even rebuildable.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

My van has some filler in it to. It has been there since before I have owned the van (1989) so I am not real motivated to remove it. My van is pretty rust free considering it was my daily driver in Vermont for many years. I always oil under coated it every year until I took it off the road when life went in other directions (kids-airplanes). It has some rust under the window seals I will have to take care of. I am starting at the bottom and working my way up. When you see me replace the canvas and paint the top you will know I done.
I took my cylinder head to the machine shop this morning. The guy is going to resurface the intake-exsust side of the head it should be done now the valves and guides are perfect. We talked about rebuilding the block so I went home to take it apart. When I went to clean up the pitting in the cylinders so I could slid the pistons up through the block and to my surprise it cleaned off no pitting. I pulled the oil pan and the lower end is excellent all stamped with a build date of 2008. I am going to paint it and put it back together all new seals and gaskets of course. I like putting things together a lot more than taking them apart. I will post some pictures when I get back on the project. I have a few busy days unless the weather bad. Thanks
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82westyrabbit
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

Not a lot of work today but I got my cylinder head back from the machine shop and installed some new studs.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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The mating surface cleaned up nicely.

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The lower end was to clean to take apart. I was pleased to see the build date stamped on the connecting rods of 2008. Now I have clean up and painting on the block. I am waiting for new cylinder head bolts.
maybe I can get the engine back together over the next week
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 82 WestyRabbit Restoration Reply with quote

Vanagon Nut wrote:
...assuming the GX has a lower compression ratio than an ABA or Tiico


ABA is 9.0:1
GX is 8.5:1

The 1HS head in question was used in both 1.6L and 1.8L engines. With the third pin grounded, this apparently indicates that this particular head is a 1.8L.

Vanagon Nut wrote:
maybe CIS fueling can be adjusted? I bet the Tiico head uses the same size valves as the RV head.


It can be limitedly adjusted. K-Jetronic actually produces a higher volume of fuel, and works with higher fuel pressure than Digifant or Motronic.

There are all sorts of hybrid (i.e. mixed heads, blocks) engine combinations out there running K-Jetronic, Digifant, Motronic, Megasquirt, etc., etc. So, almost anything is possible.
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